[nickchen]

Regions, cultures, habits...what brings you to the limits of your political correctness when looking at other places, because you are digged so deep in the habits of the place where you were raised?

I'm an EU creature and get freaked by

- Everyone's so civilized in Asia, but they do have affrays in their parliaments!!
- Alien things about the USA: Open talking about money & wanting to be rich in publicy; weapon affinity; sticking to 1950's technic

All right, that were just examples to warm up. Main reason for this thread is that I'm really curious how Old Europe or we Krauts are seen by the rest of the planet.

 

[kydsid]

I'm curious what you mean by 1950's technic. Do you mean technology? Or do you mean the notion of glorifying the past along with the notion that the 50's in the US were better and trying to reobtain the prosperity and tranquility of the 50's (Of course this is a falicy created by glorifying the past in the first place).

 

[Lazarus Short]

It is hip in some circles here in Amerika to dismiss EUites as "Euroweenies," however I see Western Civilization as being in decline on both sides of the Pond. On a very fundamental level, we have either sold our birthright for the proverbial bowl of pottage, or we have been subverted, or both. If I state my case fully, I would probably be banned from this site, so I have to resort to nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Believing that the part represents the whole, let me set up a sort of metaphor. I have a saying:

Socrates taught Plato, Plato taught Aristotle, and Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon, who went on to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people. That's Philosophy.

I am no big admirer of Alex or the military arts, but he displayed incredible leadership skills, like dumping out some water brought to him when his whole army was about to perish in the desert, because there was only enough for one. Less well known, is that he would be in the thick of hand-to-hand combat, such that his very bodyguards could scarcely keep up with him. Nowadays, generals and presidents send thousands of soldiers to their deaths, while safe time zones back from the fighting. That's the kind of change I am talking about, and more...

Just like a bacterial culture, our western culture has gone from the adjustment phase, to the growth phase, to the exponential growth phase, to the maturity phase, and now the death (or decline if you like) phase. We face extinction or a whole new level of existence.

Laz

 

[sebastian589]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus Short /img/forum/go_quote.gif It is hip in some circles here in Amerika to dismiss EUites as "Euroweenies," however I see Western Civilization as being in decline on both sides of the Pond. On a very fundamental level, we have either sold our birthright for the proverbial bowl of pottage, or we have been subverted, or both. If I state my case fully, I would probably be banned from this site, so I have to resort to nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Believing that the part represents the whole, let me set up a sort of metaphor. I have a saying: Socrates taught Plato, Plato taught Aristotle, and Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon, who went on to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people. That's Philosophy. I am no big admirer of Alex or the military arts, but he displayed incredible leadership skills, like dumping out some water brought to him when his whole army was about to perish in the desert, because there was only enough for one. Less well known, is that he would be in the thick of hand-to-hand combat, such that his very bodyguards could scarcely keep up with him. Nowadays, generals and presidents send thousands of soldiers to their deaths, while safe time zones back from the fighting. That's the kind of change I am talking about, and more... Just like a bacterial culture, our western culture has gone from the adjustment phase, to the growth phase, to the exponential growth phase, to the maturity phase, and now the death (or decline if you like) phase. We face extinction or a whole new level of existence. Laz

Wow pretty close to my sentiments. I'd also add that Alexander accomplished much of what he did based on his fathers plans and his fathers militia, something I think "Amerika" is struggling with now. How much of our perceived greatness is due to the last ten years or so, and how much is derived from a leftover legacy? When I answer that question myself I squirm a little.

As for how Europeans are perceived over here, I think it largely depends on who you are talking to. As someone who has been to Europe a few times I think as highly of you as I do of any culture. You hit on Americans obsession with wealth and money which I personally can't stand. I live in an area where people love displaying their wealth, and when they aren't displaying it they talk about it. I hear conversations all the time that are little more than a competition to tell the most impressive story (my dad bought this really great boat, oh well my dad just bought a condo in aspen, well my parents are building a giant mcmansion in the most expensive part of town). I just get disgusted with it.

In Europe of course there is still materiality, but I dont sense the same sort of faux-taboo "I don't want to show off/brag but I really do" behavior as much in Europe. It could be that I've just seen better parts of Europe, but it seems less about showing off and more about benefiting yourself. Buying the expensive doo-dad because you want it and think its better than the less expensive doo-dad, not because the expensive doo-dad is the same piece of crap but emblazoned with some status satisfying emblem.

Also I think you're political system and structure are better than over there, but that's dangerous speak on these forums. Just let me say I wish there was yelling and groveling in the senate and house, people might actually watch C-Span.

 

[nickchen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kydsid /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm curious what you mean by 1950's technic. Do you mean technology? Or do you mean the notion of glorifying the past along with the notion that the 50's in the US were better and trying to reobtain the prosperity and tranquility of the 50's (Of course this is a falicy created by glorifying the past in the first place).

I mostly thought of sheer technology (e.g. complicated quicksilver-controlled airconditioning, big thirsty OHV V8 engines, etc.). Your idea of lifting that to a kind of "meta level" is interesting and very logical though.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus Short It is hip in some circles here in Amerika to dismiss EUites as "Euroweenies"

Not too wrong indeed. I kind of envy the greater general optimism of the US folks, which helps to take the bull by the horn instead of lamenting.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus Short Just like a bacterial culture, our western culture has gone from the adjustment phase, to the growth phase, to the exponential growth phase, to the maturity phase, and now the death (or decline if you like) phase. We face extinction or a whole new level of existence.

I wouldn't say you are totally wrong, however, that thwarts my assumption of US optimism to a certain degree. Very "european appraoch" you have there indeed.

I tend to have the same sort of pessimism towards everything, but being already 42, I must give in that these "prophecies" fulfilled rather seldom. Very often fear masked itself as "wise" pessimism, and fear isn't a good adviser. I don't take my pessimism as serious as in my younger days consequently.
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian589 You hit on Americans obsession with wealth and money which I personally can't stand. In Europe of course there is still materiality, but I dont sense the same sort of faux-taboo "I don't want to show off/brag but I really do" behavior as much in Europe.

Europe distrusts the rich and powerful to a certain degree (and what happens in Wallstreet and London Bank towers nowadays shows that this isn't totally wrong). The rich are likely to be regarded as ******** over here, if someone gathers lots of money & power, he is propably a person of lowered moral integrity. Vice versa, being a "loser" isn't such a staggering verdict as in overseas. I think it was Nietzsche who stated that moral was the luxury of the poor and helpless, and that moral was almost obsolete for alpha animals.

That is why we don't admire the successful as much as the North American culture, and that is why they tend to behave a bit shyer in Old Europe. If someone in Europe shows off with his stuff, he is propably a new-rich person with redneck background.
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian589 Also I think you're political system and structure are better than over there

At least in countries with proportional representation system, but that doesn't help when the people are indifferent. That sort of of glorious (patriotic) passion for democracy as we see in today's USA is unthinkable with us cynical and saturated europeans. **sighs**

 

[apatN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickchen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Main reason for this thread is that I'm really curious how Old Europe or we Krauts are seen by the rest of the planet.

You really should post a picture of yourself.

P.S. Don't mention the war.

 

[Spareribs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickchen /img/forum/go_quote.gif .... sticking to 1950's technic

The reason for this is because I love tube amps and tubes from the 50's are great in many cases.

 

[malldian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian589 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just let me say I wish there was yelling and groveling in the senate and house, people might actually watch C-Span.

That's a heavy dose of optimism. JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!