[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Quote:

Originally posted by zzz sorry, just couldn't pass that by quietly . url=http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=323665]heh. heh heh.[/url] (that post and the stuff below too).

I believe I was the only person to say anything about msjrr's amp in that thread. Certainly my amp experience is too limited to say where the amp ranks among all the high end models. It was better then the melos and the gilmore I'll say that much. It really kicked ass with the rs-1's but well left something to be desired with the r-10's in the lower frequencies.

I'm sure your post zzz is refering to how the modded 300b amp could not wake up the bass on the r-10's and thus implying it cannot be the best amp for the sonys. I guess the question becomes what does it take to pump out the bass on the r-10's while holding onto the midrange goodness. But then again, if the amp does the omega II's justice, who cares about the r-10's.

Well, I'm likely to purchase a modded power amp from the same people soon if that says anything. I'm looking to retire from amp shopping permenately but I guess only my ears (and my wallet) will tell.

Biggie.

 

[msjjr]

Actually I was posting specifically about the R10's, not the amp. The amp is superb with any phone. I know. I've got a lot of them. It remains to be heard how it will be with the Stax, but I predict it will be superb as well.

I love the R10's period. (but this thread is not about the R10, although Nik did bring it up)

 

[zzz]

Quote:

Originally posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ I believe I was the only person to say anything about msjrr's amp in that thread. Certainly my amp experience is too limited to say where the amp ranks among all the high end models. It was better then the melos and the gilmore I'll say that much. It really kicked ass with the rs-1's but well left something to be desired with the r-10's in the lower frequencies. I'm sure your post zzz is refering to how the modded 300b amp could not wake up the bass on the r-10's and thus implying it cannot be the best amp for the sonys. I guess the question becomes what does it take to pump out the bass on the r-10's while holding onto the midrange goodness.

msjjr and Nik were talking about headphone/amp combos and so was I. And in my opinion something that lacking in bass (ignoring everything else like soundstaging, high-end sparkle, etc. for a moment) cannot claim to be `the best headphone combo in the planet`. Quote:

Originally posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ But then again, if the amp does the omega II's justice, who cares about the r-10's.

I wouldn't hold my breath. 300B has too low of an anode voltage swing to drive electrostats directly with any sort of aplomb. Not to mention that 2 300Bs cannot possibly provide the differential signal Stax needs (you need at least 4 driving elements for that) and single-ended operation would lead to a rather high distortion. Quote:

Originally posted by msjjr I love the R10's period.

Ah, love. One can't argue with love.

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Whoops my bad. I only think amps when I'm in the amp forumn.

Biggie.

 

[Dan H]

Looks like a win-win situation to me. Have to say I’m very impressed with Manley for tring to make things right. keep us posted Nik, good luck.

 

[Nik]

To tell that the R10 is a poor bass headphone is a blasphemy. I never heard a INCREDIBLE quality and power bass as with Angstrom/R10 combo ( I’m speaking of the first Angstrom model).

You know that if I must to tell something negative (Manley) about a product I have not fear.

Nicola

 

[KShaft]

On a side note, who built the Gilmore electrostat amp?

I may want to try the omegas as I havent tried electrostats yet.


On this issue of r10s not having strong bass, they had great bass with my cary, and with the gilmore amp. And from vka's and Hirsch's comments, great bass is also aquired from a Holmes-Powell and EAR headphone amp.

 

[Nik]

Good!

I had the EAR and i remember well his performance (in the bass region) with the R10... very good! But, believe me, with the Angstrom is infinity better...

Nicola

 

[KShaft]

I can only dream Nik!

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Nik Good! I had the EAR and i remember well his performance (in the bass region) with the R10... very good! But, believe me, with the Angstrom is infinity better...

The Supra has replace the EAR for use with the R10 in my setup. The sound is very dependent on tube choice. However, with the right tubes, it brings the bass on the R10 to a good strong level with nice impact. Cables are also critical. If I'm using a mediocre interconnect, the bass on the R10 is usually the first thing to go.

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

Quote:

Originally posted by KShaft On a side note, who built the Gilmore electrostat amp? I may want to try the omegas as I havent tried electrostats yet. On this issue of r10s not having strong bass, they had great bass with my cary, and with the gilmore amp. And from vka's and Hirsch's comments, great bass is also aquired from a Holmes-Powell and EAR headphone amp.

zzz built the gilmore. And r-10 + gilmore is lacking in the bass in my opinion. But if its powerful enough to your ears then thats all that matters..

Biggie.

 

[msjjr]

Hirsch: Can you tell us what the ideal tubes are for the R10? Can you post a link to the maker of the Supra amp?

At the risk of the R10's hijacking this thread, I've discovered what may be the reason for the "lack" of bass that some people complain about. R10 owners will recognize that the foam within the ear pads is assymetric in its size, the posterior portion being almost twice the thickness of the anterior portion. When I compress the ear cups at the "flare" of the "coconut", and thereby change the angle of the ear cups, the bass dramatically increases in a pleasant, not harsh, manner. This phenomenon will also be recognizable to owners of the Stax Omega II's, as owners of those phones are aware that rotating the foam of the ear cups does indeed deepen or lessen the amount of apparent bass energy. In fact zzz himself demonstrated this to me.

Since it is impractical to sit there compressing the backside of the phones all night, one would have to do minor surgery to the ear cups. One would also have to critically analyze the effect of this change on the soundstaging and midrange of the R10's as well.

Comments? Volunteers?


The ear pads are just glued on and...gulp...I may just remove them and have a seamstress make another set with lambskin leather and symmetrical pads and test this out...

...to go where no man has gone before...

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by msjjr Hirsch: Can you tell us what the ideal tubes are for the R10? Can you post a link to the maker of the Supra amp?

In the Supra, I like a Sylvania 6SN7GT (1952) for voltage gain, and E.T.L. 6SN7GT's (1959, from Germany, possibly made by Mullard) for output. There is no webpage for the Supra yet, but there should be one in the future.

Quote:

At the risk of the R10's hijacking this thread, I've discovered what may be the reason for the "lack" of bass that some people complain about. R10 owners will recognize that the foam within the ear pads is assymetric in its size, the posterior portion being almost twice the thickness of the anterior portion. When I compress the ear cups at the "flare" of the "coconut", and thereby change the angle of the ear cups, the bass dramatically increases in a pleasant, not harsh, manner. This phenomenon will also be recognizable to owners of the Stax Omega II's, as owners of those phones are aware that rotating the foam of the ear cups does indeed deepen or lessen the amount of apparent bass energy. In fact zzz himself demonstrated this to me. Since it is impractical to sit there compressing the backside of the phones all night, one would have to do minor surgery to the ear cups. One would also have to critically analyze the effect of this change on the soundstaging and midrange of the R10's as well. Comments? Volunteers? The ear pads are just glued on and...gulp...I may just remove them and have a seamstress make another set with lambskin leather and symmetrical pads and test this out... ...to go where no man has gone before...

Heh, I've already ripped my original pads off and replaced them. Come to think of it, I could condition the leather of the old ones, open them up, redistribute padding, and try reattaching them. This should be easy to do with a silicon adhesive, and would also make the pads easier to remove in the future.

To maximize bass, try simply pressing the pads against your head for a better seal. It also compresses the padding a bit, so that they don't go out as far as when you initially put the headphone on. I like the bass response best when the FRONT of the pad is compressed even further, which increases the angle of the drivers. YMMV.

 

[msjjr]

You are right Hirsch. It is a matter of driver angle and seal. I've just realized that the seal is not very good with these earcups; because of their deep padding I suppose.

Could you, perhaps, post a phone number or e-mail address for the makers of the Supra? Thanks!

 

[markl]

Anyone who thinks the R10s lack bass should take a listen to it through the Emmeline HR-2 headamp. That's the best bass I've gotten so far out of my R10s, at least.

Mark