[TheSloth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif That very much confirms my earlier Sennheiser veil theory! So basically they said that flat headphone sounded harsh, so they made those dips to make it enjoyable and euphonic. But again, not all ears are same, so they find Senns too veiled (includes me) to be enjoyable and find their musical bliss in flatter headphones like DT880 and such. *moonwalks*

Look up diffuse field equalisation. Whether one likes it or not, there are scientific principles involved in including such dips in the FR. Doesn't mean you have to enjoy it, but it's not as loosely considered as 'oh it sounded a bit harsh so lets go chopping out some frequency areas to make it sound pretty again'.

 

[Hi-Finthen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-Finthen /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1st post of mine in this thread: Perhaps the freq. response graphs represent "potential" of the given phones to reproduce frequencys as with bass in particular. Dependant upon associated gears rather than being etched in stone specifically as to what will be heard. I.e. Is that I can increase the bass response of my 701s with my choice of tube in the MAD and also bring the bass forward into prominence. Tell me did the frequency responce of the 701s change, or was it ever potential dependant upon my downstream gears? 2nd: Especially true, when we know what will be heard is so very interdependant upon the "system" into which it is placed. Also, our own hearing so often called 'preferance' which I believe goes so much further than that. I now must conclude people hear diferently and also acclimate and accommodate, perhaps in our brain with the use of Headphones speciffically. Then this presentation become the referance by which others are judged. Or else we can conclude the fans of both the HD-650 and Grados are simply whacky because the other phone has such obvious sonic flaws, forgeting we ourselves too are a major componet in this sonic chain . /Maybe Although I've been termed a fanboy in this thread, I believe the evidence stands. I first owned HD-580s because I always thought of myself as being treble sensitive, and reading here as a newbee I knew those ice picks weren't my cup of tea. But the 580 after 20 days with the headfive were totaly uninvolving so I bought the vererable HD-650 which I then decided to compare in house to the 701s ... Ahhh, this is what i had hoped the defoaming of the 650s would accomplish without the cable upgrade i also was concidering before the 701s. Ahhh YES the breath of fresh air of a crystal clear November morning less the blanket effect RELATIVE to the 650s presentation to MY ears. No predjudice, simply personal experience and a transition of what i believed and read here for confirmation proved my thinking wrong. This experience sorta argues against my theroy proposed above, however I do try to reach for understanding of what I and others hear with regards to phones i've used, with the benifit of the doubt as they say. I'm sure it is due to what we've heard ;-}

I sense nothing but fact here, no fanboyism, no predjudice and NO personal attacks...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert /img/forum/go_quote.gif In my perception many AKG users in this forum tend to make great fanboys. There just seems to be something peculiar about AKG's products that seems to appeal or seduce the kind of people who have this inclination for themselves. I would diagnose some sort of shallowness of perception, or something. No offense meant, just speculating.

Speculating of others insecurities or shallowness is obviously projection on your part... Mine here is reply...

Quote:

Originally Posted by humanflyz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would have to take exception to this claim, because if anything, Sennheiser makes great fanboys--just look at every single thread in which someone complains that they don't like the HD-series. You will see instantly that people will jump-in and say that the phones are not properly amped. And what is the solution: $$$$ tube/ss balanced rigs costing in the 5 to 6 digits range. The point is, no particular brand of headphone is more likely than any other to generate fanboyism. Every brand has its own advocates, and what you count as fanboyism may simply be another man's passion. I have my own problems with the HD650, even though I own a pair, but I never just jump in a HD650 thread for the sake of airing those problems.

Well said, and historically correct.. Some folks seem to identify so strongly with their gear as to take any mention of a difference of substaintiated opinion, as if it were personal. I do notice these folks then in turn need to attack the messenger personally. Evidence of a weak argument IME ;-}

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-Finthen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well said, and historically correct.. Some folks seem to identify so strongly with their gear as to take any mention of a difference of substaintiated opinion, as if it were personal. I do notice these folks then in turn need to attack the messenger personally. Evidence of a weak argument IME ;-}

Stop this Hi-Finthen

You're describing yourself. Numerous threads you've used sarcasm to say that Senns in particular are veiled and only work on SP amps. You have personally attacked me, Earl, and now Albert. So touche is what I'll say to you, and get to some real discussion instead of using your weak "humor" ;-}.

 

[Hi-Finthen]

Stop this Hi-Finthen

You're describing yourself. Numerous threads you've used sarcasm to say that Senns in particular are veiled and only work on SP amps. You have personally attacked me, Earl, and now Albert. So touche is what I'll say to you, and get to some real discussion instead of using your weak "humor" ;-}.

[/
QUOTE]

Wrong, Reread my post. I proposed a reasoned response and asked questions which perhaps you percieved as otherwise. Perception is germain to the arguement at hand under discussion and others who can sense clearly read my post as having made my points of argument. Not attacks except in reply by the new member above.

I have owned both cans and my opinion of them both is therefore valid!

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-Finthen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wrong, Reread my post. I proposed a reasoned response and asked questions which perhaps you percieved as otherwise. Perception is germain to the arguement at hand under discussion and others who can sense clearly read my post as having made my points of argument. Not attacks except in reply by the new member above. I have owned both cans and my opinion of them both is therefore valid!

I said numerous threads here.....you have thread crapped saying that Senns are veiled and need a SP amp many times. You have stated to me numerous times "that maybe if Earl says this......" You use ;-} a lot to try to be sarcastic.

In this thread, you have blantently made statements that the HD650 is inferior and only suited for the club atmosphere, or for hiding mistakes of a recording. All while only hearing them when you started into Head-fi, and with equipment that you have admitted synergizes more with AKGs. When I made my observation that the k501 is too colored in the upper mids, you retorted that I'm just used to the recent bass qualities of 5.1 systems and clubs....and can't appreciate classical music. Even though I use them for classical music

So stop this!!!! Lets just keep to real discourse.

 

[dizzyorange]

This is how PC World defines diffuse and free field equalization:

"Many headphones also provide an equalisation setting that is designed to simulate a listening environment, and there are two common algorithms. Free field equalisation (FF) is intended to simulate an open space without echoes or reflections, and the sound source positioned directly in front of the listener. The other type of equalisation is called diffuse field (DF) which is designed to reproduce the listening environment of a room with reflecting walls, and is generally more natural sounding than FF equalisation."

Now that I think of it, this seems to make a lot of sense. A guitar played through a Grado sounds like it's out in an open field, while on the Sennheiser sounds like it's in a concert hall. I don't know if this is the case with AKG, but the type of concert you attend (outside or indoors) may greatly affect your preference which headphone sounds the most "natural" for you.

 

[robm321]

I'm gonna get a hotdog for intermission - anyone want one? A soda?

 

[HFat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzyorange /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now that I think of it, this seems to make a lot of sense. A guitar played through a Grado sounds like it's out in an open field, while on the Sennheiser sounds like it's in a concert hall. I don't know if this is the case with AKG, but the type of concert you attend (outside or indoors) may greatly affect your preference which headphone sounds the most "natural" for you.

It also depends on the recording actually. Are you basing your assesment on (mostly, relatively) close-miked recordings?

 

[PiccoloNamek]

Quote:

A guitar played through a Grado sounds like it's out in an open field

Grado cans are neither free nor diffuse field equalized. They are "John Grado's Ear's Equalized".

 

[Hi-Finthen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm gonna get a hotdog for intermission - anyone want one? A soda?

No mention of pretzels plz

I'll buy if you'll fly, mine with hot mustard plz

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzyorange /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now that I think of it, this seems to make a lot of sense. A guitar played through a Grado sounds like it's out in an open field, while on the Sennheiser sounds like it's in a concert hall. I don't know if this is the case with AKG, but the type of concert you attend (outside or indoors) may greatly affect your preference which headphone sounds the most "natural" for you.

And I think this is what contributes to what we think of as soundstage. On my system, the k501 seems to have an emphasis of upper mids, so it's lower mids seem recessed. Getting back to how I think mids are the most important part of perception....the HD650 has a fullness in this register. So it seems right for a concert hall: where you have walls and stage that reflects frequencies in this area of the spectrum. IMO, if you have a warmer system, the k501 can have similar results.

Lets keep to real discusion. I'm tired of having to respond to the Sennheiser bashers!!!!

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Even based on your graphs, if I'm reading them right rsaavedra, is that the HD650 has a more even tonality of its treble (while it's mids are softer then the k701 there's more evenness in treble to upper treble).

I think that´s the case, the 650 seems to have more prominent upper treble and better integration between upper and lower treble than the K701, at least in the FR graphs that is.

 

[threEchelon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif Except for the fact that the K-701 doesn't have a peak in the upper mids, but rather, in the treble region.

The K701's definitely have a peak around 2.5kHz. I used to have them and when vocals were high and loud or horns were loud the phones sounded shrill, more so than other phones I've tried. I don't have them anymore but I do have a Behringer DEQ2496 which gives me a real time frequency analysis of the recording; whenever the recording peaks in the 1kHz to 2.5kHz, it sounds shrill.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-Finthen /img/forum/go_quote.gif No mention of pretzels plz I'll buy if you'll fly, mine with hot mustard plz

Well pretzels are usually brought by vendors, so I wanted to just fly for the big stuff, but since you're buying - I'll pick some up