[AndroidVageta]

Having just bought the CCA C16 with eight armatures per side for $86 and owning the ~$200 MusicMaker Shockwave 3 for a couple years now, that still sound better than anything I've owned before for (check my trader info here to see a taste of what I've sold/bought), I'm curious as to why so many other manufacturers that aren't "Chi-fi" still get away with charging so much for what I know are inferior products. Is it just the fact that people pay? Why has Chi-fi not really taken off like it should have? Are people really that snobby or arrogant to what they can get for the price? Maybe snobby and arrogant aren't the right words...I just don't see how anyone HERE would pay hundreds for a 2-3 driver IEM when you can get so much more for so much less. I mean, very positive reviews aside why would you pay $100 plus for something like a cable when the Hifihear 16 core cable can be had for $20-40? Reviews rank it as a top-tier product, the materials are top-tier, so what's to gain for paying more for less?

I mean, it's of course your money and your choice, no doubt, but I guess I'm at the point myself where $1,000+ headphones, outside perhaps some truly new and amazing tech, makes no sense to me anymore and I don't see why people "in the know" would continue to do the same.

 

[papa_mia]

Yeah, why don't people by the CCA C16 instead of the inferior VE8? I mean they're both 8BAs per side aren't they? I just don't get it...

 

[AndroidVageta]

Yeah, why don't people by the CCA C16 instead of the inferior VE8? I mean they're both 8BAs per side aren't they? I just don't get it...

I appreciate the unnecessarily sarcastic response without actually providing anything of value. The VE8 are selling for literally thousands of dollars vs. a 8 driver IEM costing less than $100 that, by reviews, seem to be every bit worth of their driver count. So, really, what is it that the VE8 are doing that simply CRUSH the C16? Again, I've owned some of the best IEM's a couple years back...even the JH16 Pro when it came out (being my highest priced IEM)...my Shockwave 3's for the ridiculously low price stomp what I've heard costing multiple times as much.

 

[Leeco]

Let me take a crack on it:
1) Hand-made VS machine-made
2) Made for Western market VS Made for Chinese market (with bigger quantity of products)
3) 2/3/5/10/life Support VS 1 year/no support (unless you speak Chinese?)
4) Expensive / custom drivers VS of the shelf drivers
5) Exposure / Promotional expenses VS no marketing

Of course I am slightly exaggerating to make a point across.
Personally I haven’t bought any IEM’s higher than $150. I have trouble justifying paying a lot of money for such a small thing, when for the same money I can buy full fledged over the ear headphones.

AndroidVageta, why don’t you share your experience to why certain models, that you have listened to, are not worth the money. Why is your CCA C16 better?
You don’t need to write reviews for every product you’ve had experience with, but just a few point (or problems) with “other” IEM’s.

 

[AndroidVageta]

Let me take a crack on it:

Most of your points, in fact all them outside of #4 don't have anything to do with actual sound quality. I was going to mention some of those things as to why prices are higher for name brand/more costly offerings but a lot of it doesn't really matter in the end I don't think. Hand made is just a labor cost, not necessarily "better", smaller batches raise prices but again, has nothing to do with audio quality, support is hit or miss for any company (better keep that receipt!) and I've found that if a IEM works it just works...I can't think off the top of my head ever having issues with anything, cheap or not. Exposure and promotion can certainly drive up costs but, again, audio quality doesn't care about that.

So in the end you're basically saying that expensive IEM's are really expensive not because of their sound but everything else that doesn't really matter to the consumer.

So considering #4 as the most important point I remember when IEM's didn't have custom drivers...especially armature based IEM's which often used off the shelf parts (Knowles). Sure some of the newer custom drivers might sound better (not all are equal) but even the "cheap" or "knock off" armatures used in Chi-fi also have improved with time...and lets be honest...just because it comes from China doesn't instantly = crap. Hell, most of the expensive custom drivers come from China made in the same places most likely.

Personally for me the Shockwave 3 kill or at least slap around everything I've owned, honest. Just looking at my own trader history and thread history (seriously I've had about 3x as much stuff and can only remember so much) going down in order the Shockwave 3 sound better than custom T50RP's, Havi B3's, Baldoor E100, HE-400's, Sony PF-V1 (those were awesome though), Dunu Titan 5, MDR-EX1000 (bass mostly), Dunu DN-1000/2000, Sony XBA-H3, JH16 Pro, Etymotic ER-4P, Shure SE535, Ultimate Ears UE900, along with...soooo much more. Most notably not listed in history here would be nearly all the Zero Audio line, FitEar, the Sony XBA-Z5, JVC FX-850/1000 (1000's were too warm but still great)...again among so much more. I'd say the only thing I remotely remember being "better" than the Shockwaves would be the HD800's but those even today are still excellent and did cost like 5x as much.

So yeah, not anything SUPER high-end compared to what's out today and nothing super new I suppose but considering the Shockwave 3's were ~$200 when many above were still being sold for a lot more I DON'T think a lot of the super high-end stuff is actually worth it compared to what you can get for a lot cheaper if we're talking just audio quality.

 

[WhatToChoose]

Most of your points, in fact all them outside of #4 don't have anything to do with actual sound quality. I was going to mention some of those things as to why prices are higher for name brand/more costly offerings but a lot of it doesn't really matter in the end I don't think. Hand made is just a labor cost, not necessarily "better", smaller batches raise prices but again, has nothing to do with audio quality, support is hit or miss for any company (better keep that receipt!) and I've found that if a IEM works it just works...I can't think off the top of my head ever having issues with anything, cheap or not. Exposure and promotion can certainly drive up costs but, again, audio quality doesn't care about that.

So in the end you're basically saying that expensive IEM's are really expensive not because of their sound but everything else that doesn't really matter to the consumer.

So considering #4 as the most important point I remember when IEM's didn't have custom drivers...especially armature based IEM's which often used off the shelf parts (Knowles). Sure some of the newer custom drivers might sound better (not all are equal) but even the "cheap" or "knock off" armatures used in Chi-fi also have improved with time...and lets be honest...just because it comes from China doesn't instantly = crap. Hell, most of the expensive custom drivers come from China made in the same places most likely.

Personally for me the Shockwave 3 kill or at least slap around everything I've owned, honest. Just looking at my own trader history and thread history (seriously I've had about 3x as much stuff and can only remember so much) going down in order the Shockwave 3 sound better than custom T50RP's, Havi B3's, Baldoor E100, HE-400's, Sony PF-V1 (those were awesome though), Dunu Titan 5, MDR-EX1000 (bass mostly), Dunu DN-1000/2000, Sony XBA-H3, JH16 Pro, Etymotic ER-4P, Shure SE535, Ultimate Ears UE900, along with...soooo much more. Most notably not listed in history here would be nearly all the Zero Audio line, FitEar, the Sony XBA-Z5, JVC FX-850/1000 (1000's were too warm but still great)...again among so much more. I'd say the only thing I remotely remember being "better" than the Shockwaves would be the HD800's but those even today are still excellent and did cost like 5x as much.

So yeah, not anything SUPER high-end compared to what's out today and nothing super new I suppose but considering the Shockwave 3's were ~$200 when many above were still being sold for a lot more I DON'T think a lot of the super high-end stuff is actually worth it compared to what you can get for a lot cheaper if we're talking just audio quality.

Would you be able to compare the CCA C16s to something in the $300+ range?

I briefly searched info and reviews on the CCA C16s, and they seem to be another treble boosted IEM, and treble boosting is a great way to fool people into thinking there is more detail than there really is. If I get the budget I might pick them up to try them for myself, but I would be interested in comparison to the main players in the high end game.

 

[AndroidVageta]

Would you be able to compare the CCA C16s to something in the $300+ range?

I briefly searched info and reviews on the CCA C16s, and they seem to be another treble boosted IEM, and treble boosting is a great way to fool people into thinking there is more detail than there really is. If I get the budget I might pick them up to try them for myself, but I would be interested in comparison to the main players in the high end game.

I just ordered the C16's yesterday so it'll be a good while before I get them. All I'll have to compare them to are my Shockwave 3's (everything else was sold off over time due to low/no use) but considering my high regard for the Shockwave 3's it'll be an interesting comparison I think, especially the bass where the Shockwaves dynamic driver is insane.

As to your comment about the treble I see where you're coming from but at the same time sort of disagree simply because I've owned many expensive/well respected IEM's that are no where near bass heavy but certainly (not all cases) have it when needed. That's what I see the C16 really being...definitely musically bright as others have said but still heavy hitting when they need to be. In other words, they don't let the bass color the sound which is how I think it should be anyways. Dual large bass armatures certainly have to deliver. IEM's like the Sony MDR-EX1000 I would have considered treble heavy/bass lacking but they're certainly not fooling people.

Anyways, I have this thread bookmarked and will for sure do a little reviewing when I get them! I'm hoping the Hifihear cable I linked above helps as well, reviews for it are stunning and for the $19 it's going for right now I bought a few lol! The stock cable for the C16 seems pretty junk and people on YouTube (I know I know...) claim that it actually damages the sound..

Either way, we'll see and I'll let you know what I think when I get them!

 

[WhatToChoose]

I just ordered the C16's yesterday so it'll be a good while before I get them. All I'll have to compare them to are my Shockwave 3's (everything else was sold off over time due to low/no use) but considering my high regard for the Shockwave 3's it'll be an interesting comparison I think, especially the bass where the Shockwaves dynamic driver is insane.

As to your comment about the treble I see where you're coming from but at the same time sort of disagree simply because I've owned many expensive/well respected IEM's that are no where near bass heavy but certainly (not all cases) have it when needed. That's what I see the C16 really being...definitely musically bright as others have said but still heavy hitting when they need to be. In other words, they don't let the bass color the sound which is how I think it should be anyways. Dual large bass armatures certainly have to deliver. IEM's like the Sony MDR-EX1000 I would have considered treble heavy/bass lacking but they're certainly not fooling people.

Anyways, I have this thread bookmarked and will for sure do a little reviewing when I get them! I'm hoping the Hifihear cable I linked above helps as well, reviews for it are stunning and for the $19 it's going for right now I bought a few lol! The stock cable for the C16 seems pretty junk and people on YouTube (I know I know...) claim that it actually damages the sound..

Either way, we'll see and I'll let you know what I think when I get them!

Awesome, looking forward to it man

 

[papa_mia]

I appreciate the unnecessarily sarcastic response without actually providing anything of value. The VE8 are selling for literally thousands of dollars vs. a 8 driver IEM costing less than $100 that, by reviews, seem to be every bit worth of their driver count. So, really, what is it that the VE8 are doing that simply CRUSH the C16? Again, I've owned some of the best IEM's a couple years back...even the JH16 Pro when it came out (being my highest priced IEM)...my Shockwave 3's for the ridiculously low price stomp what I've heard costing multiple times as much.

Hey man I was just simply wondering the same thing as you were using your logics. What could it possibly be, the thing that make the VE8 so good they would charge you $327 per driver more than the CCA C16 because they're literally identical, from sound quality to build quality so what is it then?

 

[Ra97oR]

I wish one day people will stop this stupid driver count race... More driver doesn't makes it sound better, in a most cases, it just makes it worse.

 

[stimuz]

Let me take a crack on it:
1) Hand-made VS machine-made
2) Made for Western market VS Made for Chinese market (with bigger quantity of products)
3) 2/3/5/10/life Support VS 1 year/no support (unless you speak Chinese?)
4) Expensive / custom drivers VS of the shelf drivers
5) Exposure / Promotional expenses VS no marketing

Of course I am slightly exaggerating to make a point across.
Personally I haven’t bought any IEM’s higher than $150. I have trouble justifying paying a lot of money for such a small thing, when for the same money I can buy full fledged over the ear headphones.

AndroidVageta, why don’t you share your experience to why certain models, that you have listened to, are not worth the money. Why is your CCA C16 better?
You don’t need to write reviews for every product you’ve had experience with, but just a few point (or problems) with “other” IEM’s.

It's all in the markup. Chinese manufacturers still mark their IEMs up but not by the thousands of %. Most of the 1k+ IEMs are not hand made, in fact if you actually did some digging I'm willing to bet majority of the parts are sourced from China. But yeah, you're right about the rest.

 

[maira]

I wish one day people will stop this stupid driver count race... More driver doesn't makes it sound better, in a most cases, it just makes it worse.

That´s it! And i havent heard a worldclass iem designed in China yet.

 

[AndroidVageta]

because they're literally identical, from sound quality to build quality

Did I say that? Do you work for VE? Again, a lot of smartassery but nothing of actual substance. Even with my drawn out comment above you can't even say anything meaningful to the contrary. Yeah, I don't think the VE8 are worth a RIDICULOUS $327 more per driver. Even using custom drivers I doubt they actually cost that much. I mean, hey, if insulting and mocking someone else makes you feel better about getting duped that's your problem. Good luck with that.

I wish one day people will stop this stupid driver count race... More driver doesn't makes it sound better, in a most cases, it just makes it worse.

Most people or most companies? People aren't really in the driver count race, it's the ones actually making them that are. Otherwise I do agree with you. The MDR-EX1000 is a single dynamic and crushes a LOT of several driver IEM's, both hybrids and non-hybrids alike!

It's all in the markup. Chinese manufacturers still mark their IEMs up but not by the thousands of %. Most of the 1k+ IEMs are not hand made, in fact if you actually did some digging I'm willing to bet majority of the parts are sourced from China. But yeah, you're right about the rest.

It's ALL in the markup. Like the VE8 dude buddy above keeps mentioning...$2600 for a CIEM...there's no way it cost anywhere near that to actually make.

That´s it! And i havent heard a worldclass iem designed in China yet.

Aren't most CIEM's made in China? Also, try giving some of China's higher end IEM's a shot, you'd be surprised. My MusicMaker Shockwave 3 go for ~$200 on Aliexpress and I think they're the best IEM (if not headphone) I've ever owned outside my old Sennheiser HD800's...they beat hands down every IEM I've ever owned including the (at the time) hella expensive JH16 Pro Freqphase...though while I use it as a comparison really isn't that good in the first place.

 

[Cevisi]

The western companys have to pay more money to their workers that rises the prices too

 

[maira]

Aren't most CIEM's made in China?

That´s why i have written "designed"... .