[live1]

is it good for audio quality.im very intrested in getting this phone to use as my 2nd dap

 

[toxicsweet]

LOL where did you get that info from? 24 bit DSP?

 

[ben9999imsc]

the 24-bit is not dsp

is 24-bit color from n96's cam

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ben9999imsc /img/forum/go_quote.gif the 24-bit is not dsp is 24-bit color from n96's cam

???

I did a search on Google and the N96 does have a 24-bit DSP (it also has a 24-bit screen). 24-bit to me just means higher theoretical dynamic range vs 16-bit but I doubt the N96 would be able to benefit from that given its most likely less than optimal S/N ratio.

 

[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif ??? I did a search on Google and the N96 does have a 24-bit DSP (it also has a 24-bit screen). 24-bit to me just means higher theoretical dynamic range vs 16-bit but I doubt the N96 would be able to benefit from that given its most likely less than optimal S/N ratio.

Thats how I understand it, that its just opening the range. Like Cans with a frequency response of 5-35Khz and others with only 5-25Khz. Still won't hear a difference.

Same as resampling, you can't miraculously add 8-bits to a native 16-bit signal. Its sort of like thinking transcoding increases SQ.


^No expert, might be spouting bollocks.

 

[toxicsweet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif Same as resampling, you can't miraculously add 8-bits to a native 16-bit signal. Its sort of like thinking transcoding increases SQ. ^No expert, might be spouting bollocks.

In fact, you will hear the difference, simply because 24 bit DSP provides more dynamic range for the effects. Thats if you use some, of course. Bass boost is pretty necessary for phones, IMO. They have recessed bass frequency response - usually between -2db and -4db. Also, if you're running some apps, browsing and etc., the increased power consumption may lower the current through the built-in amp even more, thus reducing bass.

And about frequency response at 35kHz - if some 'phones have flat frequency response at 35kHz and the other parts of the system perform well too, you will notice the difference. You won't hear it, because its not perceivable through the auditory apparatus, but you will feel it. In the middle of 20th century perceivable frequency range was found to peak at 200kHz by Soviet military scientists. Thats through bone conduction, not by moving air. Thats why, if you use a system capable of 35kHz flat reproduction, you will feel 35kHz frequencies, which will pass through the cushions and then the skull. Very high frequencies won't affect the sound directly, but will add the feeling of "realness", transparency and high-definition soundstage. AFAIK single-driver dynamic headphones are not capable of providing 35kHz flat frequency response due to the fact that the membrane is too heavy. I'm not acquainted enough with microphones, but dynamic mics are likely not to perceive 35kHz in reasonable dynamic range too.

IMO, the perfect 'phones have two dedicated high-frequency transducers on each side attached to the (metal) frame and the cushions are not too soft in order to conduct the high frequencies well or there is some kind of behind the neck thin metal frames on each side touching the head(not connected to each other L and R).

 

[james.miller]

most dsp's are capable of 24bit operation anyway, so its not really an indication of any performance level

 

[toxicsweet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by james.miller /img/forum/go_quote.gif most dsp's are capable of 24bit operation anyway, so its not really an indication of any performance level

Yeah, there are 24,32,64,67-bit DSPs(maybe even more). A 24bit DSP is pretty standard, but it does have better performance than a basic(and old) 16bit DSP. Usually, in order to sound good, a DSP should have higher bit-resolution than the audio stream it is altering - so that its imperfections can be masked to a great extent. They are still noticeable though.

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxicsweet /img/forum/go_quote.gif In fact, you will hear the difference, simply because 24 bit DSP provides more dynamic range for the effects. Thats if you use some, of course. Bass boost is pretty necessary for phones, IMO. They have recessed bass frequency response - usually between -2db and -4db. Also, if you're running some apps, browsing and etc., the increased power consumption may lower the current through the built-in amp even more, thus reducing bass. And about frequency response at 35kHz - if some 'phones have flat frequency response at 35kHz and the other parts of the system perform well too, you will notice the difference. You won't hear it, because its not perceivable through the auditory apparatus, but you will feel it. In the middle of 20th century perceivable frequency range was found to peak at 200kHz by Soviet military scientists. Thats through bone conduction, not by moving air. Thats why, if you use a system capable of 35kHz flat reproduction, you will feel 35kHz frequencies, which will pass through the cushions and then the skull. Very high frequencies won't affect the sound directly, but will add the feeling of "realness", transparency and high-definition soundstage. AFAIK single-driver dynamic headphones are not capable of providing 35kHz flat frequency response due to the fact that the membrane is too heavy. I'm not acquainted enough with microphones, but dynamic mics are likely not to perceive 35kHz in reasonable dynamic range too. IMO, the perfect 'phones have two dedicated high-frequency transducers on each side attached to the (metal) frame and the cushions are not too soft in order to conduct the high frequencies well or there is some kind of behind the neck thin metal frames on each side touching the head(not connected to each other L and R).

Either the amp will clip, or the headphones will loose linearity and distort long before you reach those theoretical dynamic ranges. Also, the S/N will be poor enough that at extreme volumes, you'd be getting a lot of audible distortion. 144dB of dynamic range is simply useless. I also really doubt the built in amp will be able to push headphones to those levels (haven't done the maths so this is just my gut feeling). Then again, one could argue that such a large dynamic range will allow for a very low noise floor, but think about it, the S/N ratio will be pretty abissmal anyway (I'll eat my hat if its any higher than 115dB and that would be a very optimistic guess).

Even though the DSP may support over 48kHz of bandwidth, it's unlikely that your sound files will be higher than 48kHz. That's a maximum frequency of 24kHz, well short of whatever ridiculous frequency response manufacturers state. (assuming no upsampling occurs) Who cares if your headphones can go up to 35kHz or 50kHz or beyond? It's probably -10 to 20dB at 50kHz anyway for most headphones, which will make a negligible impact on the overall perceived sound. Again this is my gut feeling and not to be taken as an absolute fact.

I do understand your point about high frequencies improving soundstage and "real-ness" of music though. Lots of speaker manufacturers use super tweeters or tweeters made of very stiff and/or low mass materials with extreme extension (40kHz+) for those very reasons. Obvious examples are Von Schweikert (ribbon), B&W (diamond), Marten Design (diamond) and JMLab (Be).

 

[live1]

ive read the n96 beats the n91 and the bang anoflsen f310 for audio and they sound amazing through the headfone jak

 

[Chri5peed]

Totally discounting the 24-bit DSP, I'm often amazed by folks expecting high SQ from a phone, comparatively maybe, but not in realistic terms.

Even a purpose-built DAP is not where you'd look to.


Music-playing 'phones are just for practicality, same as cameras on 'phones.

 

[toxicsweet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif Either the amp will clip, or the headphones will loose linearity and distort long before you reach those theoretical dynamic ranges. Also, the S/N will be poor enough that at extreme volumes, you'd be getting a lot of audible distortion. 144dB of dynamic range is simply useless. I also really doubt the built in amp will be able to push headphones to those levels (haven't done the maths so this is just my gut feeling). Then again, one could argue that such a large dynamic range will allow for a very low noise floor, but think about it, the S/N ratio will be pretty abissmal anyway (I'll eat my hat if its any higher than 115dB and that would be a very optimistic guess). Even though the DSP may support over 48kHz of bandwidth, it's unlikely that your sound files will be higher than 48kHz. That's a maximum frequency of 24kHz, well short of whatever ridiculous frequency response manufacturers state. (assuming no upsampling occurs) Who cares if your headphones can go up to 35kHz or 50kHz or beyond? It's probably -10 to 20dB at 50kHz anyway for most headphones, which will make a negligible impact on the overall perceived sound. Again this is my gut feeling and not to be taken as an absolute fact. I do understand your point about high frequencies improving soundstage and "real-ness" of music though. Lots of speaker manufacturers use super tweeters or tweeters made of very stiff and/or low mass materials with extreme extension (40kHz+) for those very reasons. Obvious examples are Von Schweikert (ribbon), B&W (diamond), Marten Design (diamond) and JMLab (Be).

Sorry, I went sidetopic, I don't mean that its possible to reproduce ultra high frequencies with that Nokia phone, I just responded to the poster above me. But I do think that all you mentioned are just technical difficulties for the phone. What I wanted to say is that you can probably have a proper system with flat frequency response up to 100-200kHz. The source will be a turntable, of course, CD and other digital formats just don't cut it. The amp should be SS, and the headphones electrostatic or other unconventional ones with high enough frequency response. Maybe a high-frequency EQ and dedicated UHF tweeters will be helpful, too.

Got what, milkpowder?

 

[milkpowder]

Gotcha

 

[toxicsweet]

Still, that Nokia phone N96 probably won't be as great music device as N91 was, thats what the guys at mobile-review and some other sites say. The SQ isn't exactly on par with N91.

Milkpowder, look above.

 

[shigzeo]

md players like panasonic and sharp did the over 16bit dsp wars years ago. the effect? placebo. they still sounded virtually the same as any other 16bit player - the difference was only that they had bragging rights and that a sony, a panasonoic, a kenwood, a sharp and an aiwa have their own signatures. no one could tell if 20bit or 24 bit made any difference. certainly, not in 16 bit music through the head outs of those players and i am sure through the nokia, it will make less difference.