[Jaska]

I suppose that for those of you familiar with Grados in general, it will come as no surprise that the subject of this post has to do with treble presentation.

I've been listening heavily to my SR-225 for some weeks now, and have really taken to them for the most part. I was skeptical/worried during my early experience with them that the treble could possibly carry me past the limit of what my ears can handle, but it wasn't until yesterday that the brightness actually became a problem for me.

For the record, I am currently using an Apogee Duet as both my source and amp. This is a very detailed source, and I feel that it really does a great job of passing everything in the recording further on down the line to the headphones. This can be a blessing or a curse, depending on the headphones.

The recording that finally sent my SR-225 over the top is Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds' "Do You Love Me?" from the album Let Love In. This is a pretty "hot" track, even compared to the rest of the songs (all of which are excellent, by the way) on the album. Every time the tempo in the song picks up with the band singing/chanting "Do You Love Me?," the crash of cymbals, high hats, or whatever that high-pitched racket is just sends me into orbit.

I understand that the SR-225 is widely considered to suffer from overdone treble to a lesser degree than other Grado models, so I really have to wonder how anyone could handle this particular song with a detailed source and, say, an SR-325i.

Twice now, just for the sake of proper validation, I have listened to the same track with the same source and amp, only substituting my ER-4S for the SR-225. While I've often felt that the ER-4S is an extremely detailed headphone (and still do, really), I have to say that while it might be "missing" something the Grado is able to reproduce, I highly doubt it. The difference is that the ER-4S has better treble to my ears.

So, I still love the SR-225, but I've once again rediscovered that I simply can't manage to beat the ER-4S.

For any of you who have this particular Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds song/album and Grados, I'd love to hear what you think of the issue I've presented here. Be sure to listen with ample volume, and suffer through the whole track before coming to any conclusion.

 

[AndrewF]

I think Nick would be happy to hear this. You might try "Papa won't leave you Henry" from Live Seeds. That should blow a hole right through them.

Andrew

 

[Jaska]

I did indeed listen to Live Seeds recently with the Grados, and didn't notice the same extremes, but I'll give it another shot once I'm willing to pull the ER-4S out of my ears.

 

[headphonejunkie]

IMO 225's are a little less treble intense than say 80's or definitely 325i's. I will have to listen on REAL Rhapsody and see how those songs sound thru my SOHA and 225's.

 

[fishski13]

i found the sr-225 a bit hot and unrefined in the treble directly out of my Benchmark DAC1. with a Naim Headline2/FC2 inserted between, the treble was much more balanced, and a bit more refined in transient information. the music moved a bit better too.

i also had a Gilmore Lite with the sr-225 but with a rougher sounding Naim cd3.5/FC2 (compared to BM DAC1). i think a quality DAC partnered with a Gilmore Lite/sr-225 will make for an excellent constellation.

PACE

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishski13 /img/forum/go_quote.gif i think a quality DAC partnered with a Gilmore Lite/sr-225 will make for an excellent constellation.

Thank you! I'm sure you noticed in my signature that my new Gilmore Lite with DPS is on the way, and this is exactly what I was hoping would be the case. I'm not going to sell the SR-225, because I can just pretty much tell that something better can come out of them with the right hardware. I actually like these headphones enough that I largely based my amp choice on them.

Again, thank you for taking the time to post this information.

P.S. To anyone thinking of buying a Duet, don't let this stop you. It makes a great source and amp for everything I've thrown at it except the Grados. Not a good match here, I'm afraid.

 

[Vaughn]

That album seems poorly recorded, in general. "Red right hand" is one of my favorites but some of the other tracks can cause pain at normal listening levels. I love the sound of the 225 but maybe you should try a tube amp with them to tame the high end?

 

[indysmith]

Listening to a clip of this song on last.fm through the Apogee Duet and SR325i presented no problems in the treble department at all for me. I actually thought it sounded pretty distant and easy going...
Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds – Do You Love Me? – Listen free at Last.fm

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by indysmith /img/forum/go_quote.gif Listening to a clip of this song on last.fm through the Apogee Duet and SR325i presented no problems in the treble department at all for me. I actually thought it sounded pretty distant and easy going... Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds – Do You Love Me? – Listen free at Last.fm

I listened to that clip, and the 30 seconds it presents do NOT include any of the problematical bits of the song. You would need to hear the song in its entirety, I'm afraid, and preferably at a high quality level in order to really experience what I'm trying to explain.

EDIT: Since you do have the Duet and the SR-325i, I really do want to hear your comments about how this particular song sounds. Too bad that even in the interest of science there are laws against hosting/sharing entire copyrighted sound recordings

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaughn /img/forum/go_quote.gif That album seems poorly recorded, in general. "Red right hand" is one of my favorites but some of the other tracks can cause pain at normal listening levels. I love the sound of the 225 but maybe you should try a tube amp with them to tame the high end?

most of nick's albums were recorded and mixed by the same engineer (except for, iirc, henry's dream - which was recorded by some air-guitarist that the label recommended, and then remixed by nick's usual guy). so it's my guess that it sounds the way it does on purpose.

i haven't heard nick's latest - have his testes dropped again yet?

Edit: oh, and try 'city of refuge' from Tender Prey. or better yet, 'happy birthday' by the birthday party

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif it's my guess that it sounds the way it does on purpose.

I don't disagree, but from what I know, Nick is typically an AKG guy. Even if the sound is supposed to be a bit punishing, I don't think he and the band are likely aware of how cruel and unusual this punishment is for Grado users

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaska /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't disagree, but from what I know, Nick is typically an AKG guy. Even if the sound is supposed to be a bit punishing, I don't think he and the band are likely aware of how cruel and unusual this punishment is for Grado users

So? Who says you can't have more than one pair of headphones?

 

[shigzeo]

im a cave fan but never listened to him with grado phones. makes me with i had my cd's here and now... sadly i will just listen to trance for the next years of my lie: yes!!!

 

[Vaughn]

ericj.....

I see what you mean about the production...I am listening to "Stagger Lee" off
of Murder Ballads and it exhibits the same sort of splashy treble present on Let
Love In. Sounds like it was sent through a Digital Crapilator

 

[shigzeo]

this is nick cave we are talking about. i am not sure that these artifacts or sibilant elements discussed are not induced by the artist/producer or just that, artifact of accidence. i never felt that nick cave was anything other than a true pioneer of alternative. he makes music that mocks itself though not in the sad timbre of weird al, but a melancholy that fits with irony as if old friends.

he is overly dramatic but not in the sappy way of robert smith of the cure, he hones in on an emotion and parades it about for a bit and then squashes it with testy lyrics.

music as well, i am sure that he is consious of some of these fragments we are hearing - it would nick cave to do that.