[sohels]

I'm looking to get some good sound and am considering two possible routes - either getting a pair of active/powered speakers or getting a separate amp + speakers.

For the first option, I'm looking at the Audioengine 5 speakers which seem to have excellent reviews. For the second option I'm looking at Pioneer Elite A35r (~$160) + Polk Audio Monitor 50 or Sony SSF-5/6/7000 floorstanding speakers. I'm also open to other speakers/amp suggestions. I've read that Paradigm Atom V.5 and PSB Alpha B1 are also good choices (and seem to be available ~$200). However, I'm not sure as to how a bookshelf compares to a floorstanding speaker - what is the effect of the larger volume of the cabinet as well as drivers/woofers? Do bookshelf speakers have an inherent disadvantage in the lower frequencies? If not, then I would prefer their smaller size.

I would really appreciate comments from people who've had experience with both types of setups. I absolutely cannot extend my budget beyond $350. All suggestions welcome.

 

[terrymx]

i rather pair a weaker amp with a good speakers than pair a decent amp with a not so good speakers.

it depends on everything. bookshelves generally won't have deep bass as good. choosing between bookshelves and fullsize is based your room size also. full size speakers in small room can be muddled. a bookshelves with good bass driver can deliver more beleivable and tighter impact than fullsize with not as good woofer. it's hard to stretch for fullsize for $300 since towers will generally require more wattage output.

ebay and audiogon.

kef iq1 and free delivery

 

[sohels]

Thank you for your response. Which amp would you recommend with the kef?

 

[terrymx]

It's hard a one if less than $100. Too bad they have significantly raised the Trends Audio T10 amp price. It has to be a used amp. Used A35R, or if you are lucky, ebay/audiogon/craiglist an older NAD integrated amp.

Don't rule out the $200-$300 Swans and M-Audio active monitors.

 

[classicalguy]

T-Amp Gen 2 for $50 would work nicely with the bookshelves.

 

[sohels]

Are you referring to the one by Sonic Impact? It seems the output is 15W/ch - how does this compare to the Pioneer A35r in terms of sound quality?

 

[classicalguy]

Yes, the SI is 15 watts per channel, which is ample for most bookshelves. I have not heard the pioneer, but I've yet to hear a mid-fi amp that sounded any where near as good as a t-amp. I have heard NADs, Adcoms, Sonys, Marantzs - all trounced in sound quality by the t-amp. I'm sure the trends is better in every way - build quality, parts, and sound - but it's really in a different price class (it's about 3x the price). So it's a question of how much you're willing to pay for smaller and smaller improvements in sound quality.

It's very difficult (really impossible) to design good low bass into a small box. Floor standers generally have better bass than bookshelves because the designer has a bigger box to work with. Bigger boxes and bigger components means more air can be moved, and better low bass. But there really is very little music down in the low regions, and many inexpensive speakers can't do the low bass sounds justice - you just get some rumbling. A well designed bookshelf can sound good without a sub, even though it doesn't produce great low bass. Sometime in the future, you can add a sub, although a good sub is quite expensive. You're not going to get a lot more bass by putting a small bookshelf speaker in a floor standing box. Yes, you may get a little lower bass, but it's not that significant. You need bigger drivers to get down low. You may be able to avoid using stands, but that's about it. So, get a t-amp and a good pair of bookshelfs and enjoy the music.

 

[TheBends]

The T amp from Sonic Impact is 15wpc @ 4ohms, 10 wpc @ 8 ohms. I'd agree the T amp is a solid performer, but I'm a fan of vintage gear and more features, viz. headphone out and multiple inputs. I run a marantz 1060 which puts out 30wpc, which gives you more headroom for less sensitive speakers and it sits by my desk in all of its 30 year old analog glory. That being said, the marantz can be had for under 100 on ebay, but the T Amp at $50 will be new and leave you more room to spend on nicer bookshelves. As far as sound quality goes, I prefer the 1060 in comparison to the older T amp, and it has a respectable (Search around here) headphone out. also, the lower wattage of the T amp may leave you wanting depending on where you plan to be listening. /end shameless plug for what i love

As far as speakers go, audiogon is a good place to check out, though the gear there tends to be pricier higher end. craigslist is another good place to look.

A thing to keep in mind about bookshelves versus floorstanders- bookshelves need stands, floorstanders do not. Also as already mentioned, floorstanders, given their larger cabinets, tend to produce deeper bass even if its a floorstander version of a bookshelf. bookshelves on average can hit 60-80hz at their best, especially in the price range we're talking about. As far as i'm concerned, given the cost of good bass from a decent sub (i'd argue that for music you'll need to spend $300-400+), i'd take and often prefer 2 channel without sub music, even with the bass cutoff at the very bottom end, unless its classical, particularly an organ fugue. But i'm a 2 channel purist so i'll take the superior reproduction in the majority of the sound spectrum over the bottom end. you can always add a sub later, so focus on your 2 channel mains first.

But you have $200 and a bit with the t amp so i'd look into used av123 xls though or even new encore series xls.

also, the bic venturi line dv62? bookshelves can be had for 100 a pair. Or, the center channel x2 is another solid performer, MTM setup, sealed enclosures and they've gotten rave reviews for their budget awesomeness.

Oh i can't believe i forgot, the Infinity Primus 150/152 have stellar reviews, they're around 200 max for a pair. just google for reviews, they're supposed to be an amazing value. I stake my suggestion with the Primus, I was actually going to put together a Primus set up for a surround set up in my game room, but ended up not going through with it.


sorry for the rambling post, but i'd definitely say to go with the primus given their reputation.

but those KEF are absolutely gorgeous.


Also, here's a thread on audioholics for sub $300
Best Bookshelfs for Under $300 - Audioholics Home Theater Forums

 

[terrymx]

^ agreed very strongly with above statements. I tried a dual subwoofer setup once just to keep the stereo effect. Aside from Marantz, you can look at used Denon (pma), Cambridge Audio (azur) and Rotel (ra). But still I think it's hard to fine one for $100. It's just hard to get a hold of one of these used european products overall. Check out the ecoustic forum also. You can get some interesting setup if you open your limitation than just what is mentioned in this forum, but you have to look around elsewhere, which is what I like about the speakers world, there are just so much more choices, but it makes for more confusion when you first get into it.

I didn't know there is a new version of t-amp. I think from actuallity it is more like 10 clean watts for 4ohms and 6 clean watts for 8ohms. Seem like a good deal though.
Generally for a 15w t-amp, I wouldn't use a speaker with sensitivity lower than 87db.

Forgot about a used onix xls, good deal too, should be able to get below $200 if you troll around the av123 sale forum, my experience is to shine it need a specific synergy or a bit of wttage. The B&W dm303 comes up frequent for about $200. If you're into diy, check out parts express, they have their own speaker building section. The most bugget of them all speakers I have seen are the Celestion F series. Many choices.

 

[sohels]

Ok that is some excellent info! I'm leaning towards the T-amp + kef combination but I'm not sure since the iq1 has an 8 ohm impedance - and so the output of the amp drops to 10 W/ch. Would this be sufficient?

I have read the Stereophile reviews for the Paradigm Atom V.5, PSB Alpha B1 and Infinity P162. How does the kef compare to them? Another interesting option seems to be the Athena LS-100 - any opinion on those?

 

[terrymx]

my experience with the tamps and several kefs, they are generally sensitive, the iq1 is rated higher than onix x-ls i had, so it should be loud enough. but if you want a good punch and body in the music, i think the trends t-10 amp is pretty amazing, it gets the volume louder as well. while the sonic impact t-amp don't perform as well, but i have not use their gen 2 product so i don't know, but it look like a good deal, but probably won't bring the best out of the speakers. you can expect pretty good mids (which is what kef are known for) and some nice highs, but maybe craving for the low ends at times.

 

[classicalguy]

The focus on watts is misplaced. I've yet to find a bookshelf that the t-amp couldn't handle. There may be some, but mainstream bookshelves will be fine. I have a bunch of vintage amps sitting in the closet, including a hafler dh-220, an advent receiver, and more modern receivers including a Marantz. All I can say is you better LISTEN to a t-amp in your system before promoting the "buy used" philosophy. I think you will be surprised at how much better the t-amp sounds. Build quality of the t is terrible - I hate the new volume knob - it defines chinsey. But the sound is pretty terrific. If you want source switching, bass management, and are using a digital source, I like the panasonic true digital receivers. The amp is not as sweet sounding as the t, but it is very clean and has a lot of features.

 

[sohels]

Ok I'm pretty much settled on the SI t-amp. However I'm not so sure about the speakers. If the KEF have a weak low end, its an issue since I don't plan to use a sub. Would the PSB alpha B1 be a better option? As of now I'm debating between the PSB, KEF and the Infinity Primus P162.

 

[classicalguy]

Let me make your search harder In the same class are: Paradigm Atom, Energy RC-10 (little more - $350 on sale at audio advisors), Acculine A-1s, Ascend, Usher, . . . It goes on an on. The problem I have is there are very few careful comparisons between these small bookshelf speakers. I think all three companies you mention make very good speakers. Which is best, I don't know.

I've been kind of intrigued by what I've read about the Acculine speakers, but I have not heard any of these speakers myself.

Kef is now owned by the same company that makes Quad, and Celestion. Manufactured in China.

PSB is made by a Canadian company using Canada's government sponsored testing facilities, and an owner who has a legendary ear for music.

Infinity is owned by the giant Harmon International with lots of resources for testing.

So, they are probably all good. Which is best - I don't know.

 

[sohels]

Hmm... ok I'm quite confused now. I've read that the Paradigm Atom V.5 has more treble energy and sparkle which I might not enjoy. The room I'll be using, although carpeted, does not have much damping.

Even though they may all be good, are they very different from each other? Will all of them, when powered by the t-amp be better than the Audioengine 5? On occasion, I may even need to play quite loud (I'm a freshman in college) if I'm having a party in my room - so they should be capable of that as well. However, excellent sound quality at normal listening volume is obviously a priority.