New Dali iO-12 ANC Headphones – Impressions Thread
Apr 24, 2024 at 3:59 PM Post #1,036 of 1,359
None of the above are facts. The fact is they are opinions. :)
Measurements are infinitely more comparable and exact, compared to that (even if none of them can be absolutely perfect).
But no need to justify subjective preferences and viewpoints by denigrating measurements.

I have e-stats that measure linearly, but do not sound lean at all, quite the contrary: they have a subjectively fuller and richer bass than even the IO-12 (and the TH900, and D9200), without sounding boomy, ever, like those. Just a full, extended, natural and seemingly limitless bass: not only the extension, but also the harmonic structure matters.
Boomy headphones just compensate. People who don't hear both might think the compensated bass is just right. And even try to justify that with selective music. That is misleading.

Fact: the IO-12 has relatively high bass distortion, AND a bump in the 60-80 Hz region -- resulting in a harmonic structure that I will continue to call exaggerated bass. It has nothing to do with how people like bass with their music.
Fact: this behavior can be corrected by tuning the acoustic environment (ear pads, fit & seal, etc).
 
Apr 25, 2024 at 11:42 AM Post #1,037 of 1,359
Is obvious that zolkis and I disagree in several aspects. BUT two things are clear for me: 1) I don't denigrate measurements AT ALL (is the opposite, actually, I think that correctly reproduced graphs are VERY valuable); 2) sometimes zolkis is having a tendency for exaggeration --and this sometimes is affecting some of his good arguments-- even when his English is very good and he's often using 'more sophisticated' audio vocabulary.

Maybe one day zolkis and I will having a beer or two...or 3 or 4, and maybe we will finding more things where we can agreeing...but clearly not now.

-------------------------

Now something completely different that maybe some people here will finding useful, even if not related to the iO-12 or ANC headphones.

I'm someone that using the standard AirPods (AP3) several times EVERY day, specially for podcasts and telephone calls. This are the 3rd Gen release of the normal AirPods, the open-style earbuds without ANC where you can always hearing your environment because they don't going inside your ears.

Today I testing already for several hours the new Bose Ultra Open Earbuds (BUOE) and, for me at least, they are a VERY serious alternative to my AP3. Why?

--- Maybe because of the fit I have with the AP3 I don't get good low end reproduction at all -- the sound of my AP3 is unnaturally lean in bass, and because I using this principally for podcasts, bass reproduction isn't so important. But this is sometimes a little frustrating because I often listening to some music with the AP3 in YouTube that people sending me via email or WhatsApp, and then I sometimes must changing to my APP2 (in-ears AirPods with ANC) or my iO-12 if I want better sound. I DON'T have this problem with the BUOE at all, I'm just getting really very good sound in all the frequency range, and this is from an open-style pair of earbuds!

--- You have volume control in the BUOE that you don't having in the AP3 (people in this thread know that I changing volume all the time). With the AP3 I always need changing volume in my iPhone or MBP and this isn't always very practical because my iPhone sometimes isn't near me.

--- Battery life is more long in the BUOE.

--- You have spatial audio in the BUOE that, in difference with the AP3 that only working with Apple devices, is working very well with my OLED Panasonic TV.
 
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Apr 25, 2024 at 1:58 PM Post #1,038 of 1,359
Is obvious that zolkis and I disagree in several aspects. BUT two things are clear for me: 1) I don't denigrate measurements AT ALL (is the opposite, actually, I think that correctly reproduced graphs are VERY valuable); 2) sometimes zolkis is having a tendency for exaggeration --and this sometimes is affecting some of his good arguments-- even when his English is very good and he's often using 'more sophisticated' audio vocabulary.

Maybe one day zolkis and I will having a beer or two...or 3 or 4, and maybe we will finding more things where we can agreeing...but clearly not now.

-------------------------

Now something completely different that maybe some people here will finding useful, even if not related to the iO-12 or ANC headphones.

I'm someone that using the standard AirPods (AP3) several times EVERY day, specially for podcasts and telephone calls. This are the 3rd Gen release of the normal AirPods, the open-style earbuds without ANC where you can always hearing your environment because they don't going inside your ears.

Today I testing already for several hours the new Bose Ultra Open Earbuds (BUOE) and, for me at least, they are a VERY serious alternative to my AP3. Why?

--- Maybe because of the fit I have with the AP3 I don't get good low end reproduction at all -- the sound of my AP3 is unnaturally lean in bass, and because I using this principally for podcasts, bass reproduction isn't so important. But this is sometimes a little frustrating because I often listening to some music with the AP3 in YouTube that people sending me via email or WhatsApp, and then I sometimes must changing to my APP2 (in-ears AirPods with ANC) or my iO-12 if I want better sound. I DON'T have this problem with the BUOE at all, I'm just getting really very good sound in all the frequency range, and this is from an open-style pair of earbuds!

--- You have volume control in the BUOE that you don't having in the AP3 (people in this thread know that I changing volume all the time). With the AP3 I always need changing volume in my iPhone or MBP and this isn't always very practical because my iPhone sometimes isn't near me.

--- Battery life is more long in the BUOE.

--- You have spatial audio in the BUOE that, in difference with the AP3 that only working with Apple devices, is working very well with my OLED Panasonic TV.
Should you be thinking about review of BUOE, I'd be very interested to read that. Got sad experience with a number of open-ears, e.g. Oladance, OpenRock, where - keeping comfort aside - bass(esp. sub-bass) performance was a big issue. Couldn't even think Bose attempt could be good :)
 
Apr 26, 2024 at 10:32 AM Post #1,039 of 1,359
Should you be thinking about review of BUOE, I'd be very interested to read that. Got sad experience with a number of open-ears, e.g. Oladance, OpenRock, where - keeping comfort aside - bass(esp. sub-bass) performance was a big issue. Couldn't even think Bose attempt could be good :)

I'm not sure I will doing a review of the BUOE, but I can telling you that, at least for me, with the fit that I have, the sound is really very, very good. And about low/sub-bass, the bass I'm getting in that part of the spectrum is very correct, similar (or even little better) than what I get in the iO-12. And, in difference with others headphones or earphones, the EQ in the app, even if is only 3 bands (bass, mids and treble), is very effective, but personally I don't using this because I think the factory sound is very good already (with my fit).

I actually prefer the sound of the BUOE than of my AirPods Pro 2 (APP2, the Apple in-ears with ANC) because I sometimes finding the bass in the APP2 a little more elevated than I think is necessary. I also find the BUOE better sounding (from memory), with the fit I'm getting, than the Bose QuietComfort Ultra (the direct competitor of the APP2).

If open earbuds are important for you, like they are for me, then I must insisting that you must trying the BUOE. But they have 2 negatives: 1) No multipoint connection right now, but apparently maybe in future firmware update this will becoming possible, but who will knowing if true; and 2) No wireless charging.

EDIT: I finally deciding starting a new thread of the Bose Ultra Open Earbuds here because I really think that this earbuds need more attention from head-fi users/visitors.

**I'm sorry that this post isn't about the iO-12 or similar competing ANC headphone, but I really think I must sharing this information with people in this thread because I have a big positive surprise about the BUOE**
 
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Apr 27, 2024 at 8:45 AM Post #1,040 of 1,359
New iO-12 review from Germany: https://www.fairaudio.de/test/dali-io-12-bluetooth-kopfhoerer/

Here is the English translation:

Test: Dali IO-12 | Headphones

It doesn't work, it doesn't exist

by FRITZ SCHWERTFEGER | 18. APRIL 2024

High-end claim and wireless playback via Bluetooth do not have to be mutually exclusive - at least not when it comes to the manufacturer Dali. Originally coming from the loudspeaker construction, the Danes have already gained a lot of experience in headphones with the IO-4 and IO-6 and are now sending their wireless over-ear flagship into the race with the IO-12 (price: 999 euros). Whether the high-end headphones are suitable for both the restless mobile handset and the demanding pleasure listener at home, we want to clarify in the following.

With and without cable​

There are many wired headphones in the range of about a thousand euros, wireless counterparts, on the other hand, are rather few. Therefore, the closed-designed Dali-IO-12-over-ear headphones are a special feature, especially since the manufacturer claims that thanks to active noise cancellation (ANC), these headphones make a Bella Figura not only wirelessly on the go, but also wired via USB - for example on the laptop on the train or plane. Of course, this should also apply to relaxed sessions at home if they are operated analog-wired on the stationary headphone amplifier. This can be done in two states: either completely passive or with headphone electronics switched on, which then takes into account the ANC and sound control via DSP. The necessary digitization takes place with a sampling rate of 48 kHz.

Delivery contents​

The supplied transport case, which does not give away any valuable storage space with its flat, compact-square design, is already convincing - not least because insensitivity was attached to in the choice of materials. Rough everyday stress? Completely unproblematic here, because thanks to its robust design, the case protects the headphones and also brings all accessories under the roof, in its own separate compartment. In the case, a 6.35 mm adapter and a jack adapter for the aircraft as well as three kinds of cables subito are at hand. Two fabric-coated 3.5 mm jack cables in different lengths (1.2 and 3 meters) ensure a wired connection, while the USB connector (not only) is used for the charging process of the integrated battery.

Equipment and possibilities​

Designed as wireless headphones with energy-saving Bluetooth 5.2, the IO-12 with aptX, aptX Adaptive and aptX HD offers modern codecs for Android users, while Apple users have AAC available. Another area of application opens up via USB, then real hi-res audio with up to 24 bit/96 kHz is possible.

As mentioned, the IO-12 does not remain silent even if the battery runs out of breath after 35 hours (manufacturer's information). It is gratifying that a gentle man's voice recalls the battery level when switched on. In the test, the Dali IO-12 was durable and pleasantly fast when charging. Connected to the home headphone amplifier via cable, it should also sound at the highest level in the traditional, analog way, which of course we want to explore later. If there is still juice in the battery, then the Dali IO-12 can also be switched on via cable, which, as mentioned, makes the integrated sound control and noise cancellation usable.

Two modes​

To be honest, the sound control is more of a kind of "sound mode". This is provided by the built-in digital signal processor (DSP) and activated at the push of a button on the right earcup, which also applies to the switchable ANC. An announcement provides information about what has been changed. The handling is exemplary, you don't have to learn complicated gestures to be able to operate the phone. There are simply two simple, small buttons, whose position and function are quickly stored.

The good old button is sometimes the best when it comes to intuitive operation ...
In the "HiFi mode" a balanced frequency response is available, while in "bass mode" an increase in the lower frequencies takes place, according to the Danes - sounds logical. Of course, the latter not only accommodates bass heads, but also glasses wearers, who can thus compensate for the "seal" reduced by the headbands - i.e. the sealing of the ear cushions and the resulting drop in level at low frequencies. The lower frequency ranges are also the main domain of active noise cancellation. According to Dali, it has been improved by new algorithms that should help avoid negative sound side effects. Works excellently in practice, especially the hardly existing noise in ANC mode without music is positively noticeable.

Finish, workmanship, fit​

When you approach the Dali IO-12, the color scheme called "Dark Chocolate" first catches the eye. It stands out from the uni black of most other headphone models. It is nice that they have strived for a harmonious design that covers the entire listener. First of all, there is the filigree-looking headband, which by no means gives the impression that you have to touch it with velvet gloves. The top of the headband, which is wrapped in genuine leather, is also flattering and luxurious at the same time, while the memory foam, which is responsible for a pleasant fit on the thinking apparatus, is covered on the underside by a smooth, but almost grippy plastic surface.

The ear cushions of the Dali IO-12 are generously dimensioned and rather rectangular
The two ear cushions, which continue the brown color seamlessly, are also softly bordered and covered in leather. Even their edging is knocked out with leather, it is these small details that give the Dali IO-12 a noble understatement. The ear cushions are not oval or round, but rather rectangular in shape and quite generously designed. What has several advantages: In this way, larger ears find enough space, while the resulting larger room volume can also be an acoustically plus. In addition, the ear cushions adapt very well to the head shape due to the sensitively movable positioning on the housing shells, skillfully distribute the weight of the 370-gram IO-12 with a finely balanced contact pressure and ensure a good seal on the ear. This is not only important for the lower layers, but also for passive noise cancellation, after all, you would rather leave out unpleasant external noises. Of course, it also benefits the active noise cancellation.

The seat, comfort and feel when wearing are among the best I've had on my head so far. The same applies to the intuitive usability. In addition to the mentioned buttons, this is made possible by a touch field made of anodized aluminum on the right ear cup, which consists of an outer ring and a minter field. While the ring takes over the volume control at the top and bottom, a simple tap on the control panel with the Dali logo allows the track to be paused or, if necessary, the call-taking is activated. Just as practical: Multiple taps allow you to move in the playlist, optionally in one direction or another.

Large drivers and soft material​

The ear cups are made of a low-resonance material and minimize disturbing external noise. Inside, they are elaborately stiffened and dampened to avoid any form of inherent sound. A sophisticated damping keeps sound energy reflected on the back away from the drivers, which - equipped with unusually large 50 mm paper fiber membranes - do their work invisibly inside the ear cups. Like everything else, these large, dynamic drivers were completely designed and built by themselves instead of being bought. By the way, a special Dali technology is used here, namely the soft composite compound material (SMC), which can also be found in the drive systems of the expensive Epicon speaker series. According to Dali, it is said to be responsible for lower harmonic distortions and a high sound quality. According to Dali, the amplifier stages subsequently installed in the DAC, which operate in bridged mode according to the Class D principle, are also complex. Of course, we want to get to the bottom of this statement, which is why a supportive "Une et Mille Nuits" of the Domaine Canet-Valette is certainly not out of place here ...

Dali IO-12: Hearing test and comparisons​

Space and sound​

My often validated thesis that headphones designed for wireless operation passively on a headphone amplifier hardly make a sting, the Dali IO-12 quickly refutes. Connected to the headphone amp HIFIMAN EF-400, it plays conspicuously spatially for a closed headphone and creates plenty of space between the instruments instead of compressing tightness. The IO-12 fans nicely into the width. It does not penetrate into the depth of the action as, for example, a (purely wired) Audeze LCD-X used for comparison (1,500 euros), but a step lower than the Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless (599 euros), while the significantly cheaper Technics EAH-A800 (350 euros) directs the space with narrower play forward more. Two strengths of the Dali IO-12 - the pronounced spatiality as well as the unagitated-balanced, rather airy than earthy tonality - run like a red thread through all playing and connection variants.

Rich in detail​

Resolution and transparency are shown in "Ride My Arrow" by Bill Callahan (album: Dream River) - the Dali IO-12 proceeds with a lot of fine drawing without ever becoming glassy or hard. Okay, the Beyerdynamic Amiron Wireless also succeeds in the latter, but it does not bring the same lucid playing style and lightness of the IO-12 to the ear, but seems more effortless. The same is shown in "Wherever I May Roam" by Metallica (album: Metallica), here, too a transparent, accurate and "fatigue-free" way of playing can be stated. Guitar riffs, bass line and drumming do not appear as compressed porridge, but present themselves beautifully detached from each other, you can keep them wonderfully apart. In addition, I already take a coherence at low levels, i.e. balance in the tonal overall impression, which enables hearing-friendly music enjoyment, because you do not have the feeling of having to turn louder to see everything.

Bass à la carte​

The mentioned Beyerdynamic gives the sound image a touch more warmth and directness, the Dali looks airier and lighter in hi-fi mode - what pleases better is a matter of taste. With the low bass waves in the piece "Party Is Going On" by Busta Rhymes, both headphones come with plenty of depth, but the Dali IO-12 remains rather tight and springy, while the Amiron Wireless goes a little more powerful. However, this can be changed at the push of a button, because in bass mode, the Dali IO-12 packs abundance, so that the grooves gain a decent amount more warmth and volume. So you have the choice here. The following applies to the overall tonality: In hi-fi mode, the Dali IO-12 looks a little lighter/slimmer than "normal zero", but in bass mode a little richer and warmer.

Clear and agile​

In "Back in Time" by John Scofield (album: Uncle John's Band), the shimmering hi-hats in the top layers are rather silkier than crisp intoned, which suits me personally. Snare and percussive elements give themselves without emphasis, they convince with fine resolution and balanced, neutral diction. This also applies to the jazz guitar, which is "beautiful" but not "exuberant" in the juice above the IO-12 and presents itself with authentically outlined physicality. The clear and agile characteristic of the instrument is played by the very balanced timbre of the middle band into the cards, which does not come across euphonic-dark, but simply realistic, neutral and transparent.

Test conclusion: Dali IO-12​

Let's summarize: The Dali IO-12 shows an extremely detailed, gently-finely polished overtone spectrum, expressive, neutral mids without any fundamental increase - and a seamlessly following, tight, detailed and slightly slimmer bass range. This applies to the hi-fi mode. In bass mode, an increase in the lower frequency ranges is added, which does not require real exaggerations and brings the groove and fun factor forward depending on the music genre. The overall tuning then looks a little warmer, while it appears slightly slimmer in hi-fi mode.

The transition from piano to forte, i.e. from quiet to loud passages in classical works, the Dali IO-12 succeeds not only without interruption, but with a very precise and nuanced representation of the individual changes in tempo and intensity. In addition to these dynamic merits, it also has a strikingly extensive space - especially for a closed headphone - which leaves a lot of space between the instruments. In terms of sound, I personally prefer the passive connection with activated electronics to the one without (which amazes me), followed by the direct connection to a USB source. Nevertheless, even in Bluetooth mode, especially with aptX HD, the Dali IO-12 is one of the most pleasant-sounding and long-term headphones in this market segment.

Not only in terms of sound, but also thanks to its luxurious appearance and the impeccable workmanship and material quality, the IO-12 is worth its money. Due to its versatility, the IO-12 is recommended for both stationary and mobile use - and thus actually for the demanding highender on the sofa as well as for the listening globetrotter, for whom the classic ANC over-ear representatives of Bose and Co. seem too profane. Dali kept his promise. Chapeau!

Facts:​

  • Model: Dali IO-12
  • Concept: closed over-ear headphones with Bluetooth and ANC
  • Price: 999 Euro
  • Weight: 370 grams
  • Versions: Dark Chocolate
  • Scope of delivery: USB C cable, stereo mini jack cable (1.2 m), stereo mini jack cable (3.0 m), 3.5 mm stereo mini jack to 6.3 mm jack adapter, adapter for aircraft connection, travel case
  • Battery life: 35 hours
  • Other: Bluetooth 5.2 (wireless), codecs: AAC, aptX, aptX HD, aptX Adaptive
  • Connection: Bluetooth, 3.5 mm jack, USB-C
  • Warranty: 2 years
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 2:15 PM Post #1,041 of 1,359
I'm in the market for a pair of high end ANC wireless headphones and have been avidly reading the posts in this thread over the past couple of days.

I currently own a pair of Bose QuietComfort Ultra headphones and they are excellent in terms of noise cancellation along with some innovative features such as immersive audio. They are what I call great consumer based ANC wireless headphones.

I have previously owned B&W PX7 S1, PX8 and Bathys. I thought the Bathys were the best of the bunch, wireless was OK but we're better in DAC mode. But I felt the Bose were better for outdoor/portable purposes.

The reason I am now gravitating towards higher tier ANC wireless headphone is based on the reviews and feedback around the sound quality, not just in ANC but also passively and USB dac modes. This means I can get the best of all worlds either on the go or at home. The aforementioned headphones fo not meet these requirements where the sound quality is more appealing in ANC mode.

Based on my budget and personal preferences, I have narrowed down my options to 2 headphones - the Dali IO-12 and the ML 5909. The Dali's are currently in pole but I can get the 5909s at a much lower price which might be better in terms of bang for my buck.

From what I've been reading there's not a lot between the 2 in terms of sound quality and features. I've heard amazing reviews for both headphones and will be demo'ing them tomorrow, I really can't wait!
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 2:24 PM Post #1,042 of 1,359
I'm in the market for a pair of high end ANC wireless headphones and have been avidly reading the posts in this thread over the past couple of days.

I currently own a pair of Bose QuietComfort Ultra headphones and they are excellent in terms of noise cancellation along with some innovative features such as immersive audio. They are what I call great consumer based ANC wireless headphones.

I have previously owned B&W PX7 S1, PX8 and Bathys. I thought the Bathys were the best of the bunch, wireless was OK but we're better in DAC mode. But I felt the Bose were better for outdoor/portable purposes.

The reason I am now gravitating towards higher tier ANC wireless headphone is based on the reviews and feedback around the sound quality, not just in ANC but also passively and USB dac modes. This means I can get the best of all worlds either on the go or at home. The aforementioned headphones fo not meet these requirements where the sound quality is more appealing in ANC mode.

Based on my budget and personal preferences, I have narrowed down my options to 2 headphones - the Dali IO-12 and the ML 5909. The Dali's are currently in pole but I can get the 5909s at a much lower price which might be better in terms of bang for my buck.

From what I've been reading there's not a lot between the 2 in terms of sound quality and features. I've heard amazing reviews for both headphones and will be demo'ing them tomorrow, I really can't wait!

Definitely Demo both of them! I was at the same crossroads; I went with Dali due to some less than stellar customer service interactions with the ML team as well as some poor reviews on battery replacement by them.

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...n-no-5909-headphone-review.35292/post-1904977

Dali has confirmed to me that they do offer battery replacement.
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 2:27 PM Post #1,043 of 1,359
Apr 29, 2024 at 2:28 PM Post #1,044 of 1,359
I'm in the market for a pair of high end ANC wireless headphones and have been avidly reading the posts in this thread over the past couple of days.

I currently own a pair of Bose QuietComfort Ultra headphones and they are excellent in terms of noise cancellation along with some innovative features such as immersive audio. They are what I call great consumer based ANC wireless headphones.

I have previously owned B&W PX7 S1, PX8 and Bathys. I thought the Bathys were the best of the bunch, wireless was OK but we're better in DAC mode. But I felt the Bose were better for outdoor/portable purposes.

The reason I am now gravitating towards higher tier ANC wireless headphone is based on the reviews and feedback around the sound quality, not just in ANC but also passively and USB dac modes. This means I can get the best of all worlds either on the go or at home. The aforementioned headphones fo not meet these requirements where the sound quality is more appealing in ANC mode.

Based on my budget and personal preferences, I have narrowed down my options to 2 headphones - the Dali IO-12 and the ML 5909. The Dali's are currently in pole but I can get the 5909s at a much lower price which might be better in terms of bang for my buck.

From what I've been reading there's not a lot between the 2 in terms of sound quality and features. I've heard amazing reviews for both headphones and will be demo'ing them tomorrow, I really can't wait!
Do you prefer a more bright sound or a warmer sound? What’s your general go to
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 2:28 PM Post #1,045 of 1,359
Apr 29, 2024 at 2:30 PM Post #1,046 of 1,359
Do you prefer a more bright sound or a warmer sound? What’s your general go to
Hi @jthomp72 i normally prefer a brighter sound versus warmer but it can vary, it depends on how articulate the headphone is
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 2:32 PM Post #1,048 of 1,359
Also if you don't like apps, there's no app for the Dali to keep track of haha.

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...n-no-5909-headphone-review.35292/post-1532409

Also I thought I saw a post in the Classifieds for a good pair of Dalis.

Another option is if you have any friends visiting Europe or Asia to have them pick one up for you and bring it back.
I'm not really fussed either way, what's important is how well the perform regardless whether being used wirelessly or not
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 2:34 PM Post #1,049 of 1,359
I find both headphones to be very articulate, but the 5909 tends to be a brighter sound. There’s a little more sparkle on the treble.
Thanks @jthomp72 that's what I've been led to believe but there might be certain aspects of the IO-12 which make it overall more pleasure. That's why I really can't wait to try both
 

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