[Rockin_Zombie]

I managed to compare the IO-12 with the IO-6 at my kind Dali dealer.

Disclaimer: I didn't have much time, so these are superficial first impressions. And they are good.

IMHO the IO-6 sounds extraordinary for the price, especially with ANC off. The bass is full and deep, a bit elevated as well, but it was pleasant.
I like the tonality better than that of the IO-12. There is no hint of honkiness or shoutiness like with the IO-12.
The sound stage is smaller than with the IO-12, but holds its own. I was surprised.
They are more portable as well. Build quality is somewhat less than with the IO-12, but very good for the price.
IMHO the IO-6 is one of the best wireless headphones out there, and the one with least amount of issues so far.
I prefer it much more than the competition up to 1K eur and beyond (I'd not hesitate to choose the IO-6 over the T+A ST).

Is it better than the IO-12? No. Driver to driver, the IO-12 is much better. Also the IO-12 sound stage is much bigger. So there is something in the SMC driver claims, but relative to other Dali drivers, not to wired headphones with comparable biocellulose drivers.

Now to the main thing I wanted to know. Good news:
- The IO-6 pads fit the IO-12.
- The IO-12 IMHO sounds more pleasant with the IO-6 pads, fixing its (as perceived by me) slight tonality problems, while retaining a huge sound stage.
It was a smiling listening experience. Unfortunately there were no spare pads, I had to order.

So even though I could not spend properly enough time with testing the IO-6, but I got my answers relative to the IO-12, and more.
Since a Denon D5200 was also there (and a Hifiman closed back), I compared them (wired) with with the IO-6 (Bluetooth, ANC off).
I'd say they are on similar levels, and it's mainly the listeners' preference that will decide. The IO-6 is wireless and has ANC for the same money.
The IO-6 sounded better to my ears than the similarly priced Hifiman closed back, but that was a very quick evaluation. Not conclusive.
I checked longer the D5200, which IMHO sounded more organic than the IO-6: more analog, round, more pleasant, less technical in comparison. It's a similar tonality as that of the IO-6 without ANC. For the same money I'd choose the IO-6, though. YMMV.

I will make a separate post (and comparative measurements) on how the IO-12 sounds with the IO-6 pads. A few days will be needed.

Already at this point I am sure the IO-12 is the very best wireless headphone for me, now that I heard all the competition, and the IO-12 with the IO-6 pads, but I will need more time with both to say anything more grounded and conclusive. I am entertaining the idea of getting extra pads for the IO-12 and experiment with optimizing them - but they are not available yet, and cost a lot (99 eur the pair).

I now own both the IO-12 and IO-6. Got the IO-6 like new for less than $200, had to jump on it. While I agree that IO-6 gets you 60% of IO-12 out the gate sound-wise, the soundstage differential is huge. I tried the IO-12 with the IO-6 pads as well and did not really care for the reduction in soundstage. The passive isolation of the IO-12 pads can't be beat either. IO-12 driver also has better mids. Just now I did a side-by-side comparison listening to Dream Theater's Forsaken, there's a whispered backing vocal around 1:25 which IO-12 reproduces perfectly, IO-6 not so much.

IO-6 is definitely more versatile though, I got them for running (yes I am the weirdo who runs wearing full-size headphones) since they are IP-53 rated. Went on a long run this morning and they clamp hard enough for activities. Not surprised since Dali had this picture in their promo materials. I am surprised they have the IP rating buried so deep in their specs, there are not many IP-rated full-size headphones out there, believe me I searched high and low. All are JBL/Beats v-shaped crap.

I feel like Dali could have done better marketing with the IO-4 and IO-6, I didn't even know they existed till I came back to head-fi. The cup is very small though (~2.1 inches height only), so they are not your wear-and-forget type of headphones, if your ears are even above average they will become on-ear rather than over-ear. No such issues with the huge-ass IO-12 pads.

 

[streetbeat]

The IO-6 pads fit the IO-12.

Did you find iO-6 pads deeper than iO-12 or same?

Edit: not a question anymore after @Rockin_Zombie summary above.

 

[zolkis]

Did you find iO-6 pads deeper than iO-12 or same?

Edit: not a question anymore after @Rockin_Zombie summary above.

No, they are more shallow, and smaller both in external and internal diameter. The IO-12 pads will be comfortable to a lot more people. I am lucky the IO-6 pads work for me, but they are on the limit. I'd want similar depth, but larger pads. In the end, I might get the 3D printed ear pad adaptor for Dali IO, and try 3rd party pads (I have dozens).

 

[zolkis]

I now own both the IO-12 and IO-6. Got the IO-6 like new for less than $200, had to jump on it. While I agree that IO-6 gets you 60% of IO-12 out the gate sound-wise, the soundstage differential is huge. I tried the IO-12 with the IO-6 pads as well and did not really care for the reduction in soundstage. The passive isolation of the IO-12 pads can't be beat either. IO-12 driver also has better mids. Just now I did a side-by-side comparison listening to Dream Theater's Forsaken, there's a whispered backing vocal around 1:25 which IO-12 reproduces perfectly, IO-6 not so much.

IO-6 is definitely more versatile though, I got them for running (yes I am the weirdo who runs wearing full-size headphones) since they are IP-53 rated. Went on a long run this morning and they clamp hard enough for activities. Not surprised since Dali had this picture in their promo materials. I am surprised they have the IP rating buried so deep in their specs, there are not many IP-rated full-size headphones out there, believe me I searched high and low. All are JBL/Beats v-shaped crap.

I feel like Dali could have done better marketing with the IO-4 and IO-6, I didn't even know they existed till I came back to head-fi. The cup is very small though (~2.1 inches height only), so they are not your wear-and-forget type of headphones, if your ears are even above average they will become on-ear rather than over-ear. No such issues with the huge-ass IO-12 pads.

Then you have long term experience, that's always better, that's the only way to properly evaluate stuff.

Out from fresh memory, I'd say if the IO-12 sound stage is 100%, then I agree the IO-6 sound stage is indeed about 60%, and the IO-12 + IO-6 pads sound stage is about 85% -- but I will need time to evaluate all the details and amounts. What got me was the improved tonality (for me at least).

The IO-12 + IO-6 pads sounded so much better than the IO-6 (with the same pads), it was hard to believe. I even forgot to try the IO-12 pads on the IO-6 -- and actually it would have not made much sense, it was clear the IO-12 is worth the extra price for me. I will go forward with that and will try to shape its sound to my preferences. But will not put too much time in exploring all kinds of 3rd party pads, the IO-12 together with both the IO-6 + IO-12 pads might just cut it for me.

Also based on recent memory, I can also understand @angelom's preference for the ST when sound is concerned. I expected a different sound based on all the testimonies on its thread, then it turns out it's also a bass cannon (but in a much better way than the rest), and it has modes others don't (high quality, and good passive) and a very good internal DAC.

It's interesting how much the personal preferences matter... once again I realized I cannot trust reviews, I need to listen myself. A one hour listening session can save me hours of browsing online reviews and impressions.

 

[angelom]

Also based on recent memory, I can also understand @angelom's preference for the ST when sound is concerned. I expected a different sound based on all the testimonies on its thread, then it turns out it's also a bass cannon (but in a much better way than the rest), and it has modes others don't (high quality, and good passive) and a very good internal DAC.

The ST a "bass cannon"?! Poor Mr. Darko -- his excellent long time reputation is now completely destroyed after your comment. His very high opinion of the ST (a review, by the way, that is coming many months after I receiving my pair in Nov 2022) is now completely useless and meaningless. And a couple of others reputable reviewers, too, that also have a high opinion of the ST, their reputations are now in the rubbish bin. Sad.

 

[Rockin_Zombie]

It's interesting how much the personal preferences matter... once again I realized I cannot trust reviews, I need to listen myself. A one hour listening session can save me hours of browsing online reviews and impressions.

Just curious, what type of music do you listen to usually? I usually jump to that section in the reviews right away. At least with FR curves I have a decent sense of the sound signature nowadays, but things like soundstage depend so much on the physical structure of the headphones and pads that can't be figured out without trying.

As an example, I find all hifiman headphones too bright. But they are very well regarded everywhere. In general I find open headphones lacking bass. Getting the FT5 delivered today, the FR looks promising, we will see.

 

[musingclouds]

The ST a "bass cannon"?! Poor Mr. Darko -- his excellent long time reputation is now completely destroyed after your comment. His very high opinion of the ST (a review, by the way, that is coming many months after I receiving my pair in Nov 2022) is now completely useless and meaningless. And a couple of others reputable reviewers, too, that also have a high opinion of the ST, their reputations are now in the rubbish bin. Sad.

Opinions are opinions though, they’re not supposed to be objective

 

[jthomp72]

Opinions are opinions though, they’re not supposed to be objective

I mean really what are reviews of headphones if not subjective opinions from the person reviewing them… That’s the nature of the game so yeah you’re right

 

[musingclouds]

To be frank, I’m picking up the Dalis due to angelom’s glowing reviews and my own personal needs. I wanted the best Bluetooth headphone for audio quality within my budget. And even though the intention is to buy, maybe I listen to them and absolutely hate them (I doubt it but it could happen)

I went out and tried a bunch of similar class headphones in store and next week will pick up the IO-12s. Meaning I did my “research” for my preferences. But my perception on how I feel things (re: my opinion on the Solitaire Ts or the PX8s for example) are mine and mine alone, colored by my experiences and hopefully not too crazy hearing loss (this is a joke, don’t @ me)

Everyone feels different things and has a right to; reviews are just subjective tools you can choose to use or not. Ultimately what’s valid is your own experience, in particular with things like art and music.

So I don’t get the random back and forth about disagreements on opinion. It’s irrelevant.

 

[zolkis]

Just curious, what type of music do you listen to usually? I usually jump to that section in the reviews right away. At least with FR curves I have a decent sense of the sound signature nowadays, but things like soundstage depend so much on the physical structure of the headphones and pads that can't be figured out without trying.

As an example, I find all hifiman headphones too bright. But they are very well regarded everywhere. In general I find open headphones lacking bass. Getting the FT5 delivered today, the FR looks promising, we will see.

The right question. I also always ask what music the review was about. I mentioned my usual genres earlier (a few times), that is mainly instrumental, jazz, small chamber, piano, cello, wind instruments, indie, pop, some electronica, world music, some synth and flow, metal (many flavors) etc. Pretty much everything. When I listen to headphones it's mainly instruments and jazz.

The ST a "bass cannon"?! Poor Mr. Darko -- his excellent long time reputation is now completely destroyed after your comment. His very high opinion of the ST (a review, by the way, that is coming many months after I receiving my pair in Nov 2022) is now completely useless and meaningless. And a couple of others reputable reviewers, too, that also have a high opinion of the ST, their reputations are now in the rubbish bin. Sad.

Those "high opinions" are not necessarily contradicted by statements like "it's a bass cannon" -- without knowing that good sound means what kind of good bass for a given person. This is a false dichotomy.

Yes, I am sometimes disappointed in those reviews, and I did burn myself with even Darko's glowing opinions a few times -- and he is fine with that, as am I, as this is how reviews and personal listening experiences go, he even has some videos about this.

There are reviewers and reviews with whom my experience correlates well, and others with which they don't. I don't bash any reviewer for that, I simply choose the ones that seem to agree with my perception and taste of music.

After all the forum reviews of the ST, based on those words I didn't expect as much bass as I was hearing. It wasn't bad, I never said that, and I didn't say I'd have a low opinion on the ST. Actually if you manage to read and understand what I wrote, you might realize I had a good opinion about it (except for the price). It was you have postulated that I had a low opinion on the ST, and then wrote a sarcastic litany about that being wrong (because famous reviewers must be right). You just downplayed your own assumption, and that had nothing to do with my opinion.

I do have proper references for linear playback (that does not sound lean, but full, natural and extended) - both from speakers and my e-stats. Compared to these systems, and with a long experience, I can hear very clearly the different kinds of limitations of various wired and wireless headphones.
When I say a headphone is a bass cannon, how do you know it's a "low opinion" or a colloquial figure of speech, and what am I comparing it with?

Yes, I do think the T+A ST have elevated bass (especially after all the glowing reviews I read), but as I said, it's a pleasant bass. Nevertheless, IMHO the ST could sound much better with EQ'ing the bass region. Yet, even in its best form, it cannot approach proper high end headphones. That's just a fact. Put things in perspective, never in absolute terms.

 

[scottsays]

Just received my io-12 from audio 46 ---emailed them yesterday asking them if they would let me know if they ever get a return---so I could buy an "open box" for a lower price. The salesperson informed me, obviously there were none , but offered a 10% discount and I decided...what the heck...$ 1070 delivered in about 24 hours. I am outside of New Haven CT --so from NYC-- standard free shipping from audio46 always is overnight free shipping, lol.
I had the Focal Bathys, since last summer and the past month purchased the B&W PX8 ($400 amazon-used-perfect condition) and Mark Levinson 5909 on ebay ( $487 tax-shipping) perfect also----kind of went nuts----
Decided I was just gonna have "the best" wireless headphones...at some point hopefully will acquire the T + A Solitaire---I am gonna sell all my other BT headphones, .about 12 pairs---the rest of what were once the " best"...no longer with these 5 out now.

Just hooking the Dali io-12 up with BT out of the box--THESE are the best sound quality so far-----as far as I can tell at this early stage. More details and clarity----
looking forward to breaking these in and REALLY hearing what they can do---but I can tell that these are superior to the others---

Oh---and the B@O H95 is on my "want list" too....at some point......( I think I may need an intervention--Audiophiles Anonymous==
" I swear I can quit anytime I want...honest...." )

 

[angelom]

Actually if you manage to read and understand what I wrote, you might realize I had a good opinion about it (except for the price). It was you have postulated that I had a low opinion on the ST, and then wrote a sarcastic litany about that being wrong (because famous reviewers must be right). You just downplayed your own assumption, and that had nothing to do with my opinion.

Actually, I think I can managing understanding your comments very well, thank you. Is not me "postulating" that you have a low opinion of the ST, but you must also considering the possibility that maybe your descriptions aren't always very exact/precise and/or they are sometimes exaggerated; this is different than "postulating" anything from my part. Is curious that not only Darko, but also some others people outside Head Fi ---people with no financial interest (meaning: no conflict of interest typical of so many supposed reviews)--- speaking highly of the ST, plus the people with more experience with headphones and audio in the ST thread doing the same.

Your comments about the value (the price) of the ST are also very curious, specially when you're excluding completely the fully passive performance aspect of this headphone (that is including balanced cabled capabilities too) --- fully passive being the original and main design intention for the ST by T+A, with both types of BT modes [one of this modes ("High Quality") being unique to ALL BT/ANC headphones in the market], USB-C mode, ANC and transparency modes being added later to the wired-only design. And the value is possibly more high, even, if we considering that both ANC and transparency modes performance is better in the ST too...and the fact the ST is truly 100% portable, including the very good small size of the carrying case for this purpose. And, less important but a fact still, the ST is have a companion app that coming with EQ presets (not very good, unfortunately, in my view) -- hopefully T+A will updating the app one day with custom EQ settings, like they promising long time ago, hopefully with at least 5 bands, specially for some (old thin sounding masters) albums that in my experience can benefiting from little EQ'ing.

Your comments about the construction quality of the ST, after spending only a few minutes with this headphone, are curious too. Well, we don't agreeing here, either, one more time, but at least I owning the ST for one year and the iO-12 for 3 months now, and I can saying confidently that the construction quality of the ST is better, not a lot better, but clearly better in my experience.

 

[Zojokkeli]

I just noticed I had a carry case for Audeze Penrose lying around, and figured I’d try it out with IO-12. While it’s definitely chunkier, it still fits into my backbag much better, and is easier to put in and take out of there than the IO-12’s own case.

 

[chesebert]

In the Lithium battery replaceable? If yes, what is the cost? some hifi brands want $500+ for battery replacement in their portable electronics.

 

[musingclouds]

In the Lithium battery replaceable? If yes, what is the cost? some hifi brands want $500+ for battery replacement in their portable electronics.

Yes it’s replaceable, cost unknown atm, confirmed with Dali APAC