[moriez]

 

  I haven't given the HD800 a shot, but I did have the HD650 with the T1.1 and T1.2. My DT990/600 are my reference point, along with my standard audio chain. The Sennheisers and Beyerdynamics are not even in the same ballpark, IMAO. The build quality on all of them are fantastic, but the sonic signatures are wildly different. The 650, even modded, has the "Sennheiser veil" when compared with anything by Beyerdynamic and I'm trying to sell them as fast as I can.
 
I wound up keeping the T1.1 out of a balance of sonics and finances. The T1 series, to my ears and gear, are pretty closely matched. I managed to get a pair of 1.1 for about $400, while the T1.2 cost north of $900. I've said elsewhere that the T1 is a grown-up DT990; all of the wild characteristics of the 990 are more refined in the T1. Now, the $100k question is, is the T1 worth the price differential? The answer is a qualified maybe.
 
For my gear and ears, the T1.1 is an excellent upgrade. The T1.2 just didn't have the price-performance ratio to justify the delta. I really wanted to like the T1.2; the headband oozed luxury and sounded fantastic, but I can't tell the difference between leather and pleather when it's sitting on my coiffe. The T1.1 wins on comfort/price.
 
The T1.2 sounded a tad more refined on the highs, though neither was what I would call harsh. Even my most annoying Tori Amos tracks were smooth with these cans. The bass was tight and punchy on both. Only on "The Greatest Show on Earth" on Nightwish's "Endless Forms Most Beautiful" CD did the bass resolution really separate the two, with the T1.2 reaching further down the register and with more detail. This is not to say that the 1.1 didn't acquit themselves, though.
 
Again, I found the biggest difference between the T1.1 and the T1.2 was the price. Was the T1.1 worth the $400 ($150 more than the DT990) I paid? Yes. Was the T1.2 worth nearly $1,000 (four times the cost of DT990)? No. The T1.2 is a great set of cans, make no mistake, but the price point is misplaced. Of course, my audio chain isn't top of the line, but I really enjoy what I have; Modi 2 Uber, Crack, T1.1. The M2U was $100, T1.1 $400, Crack (after ridiculous mods) $750. For $1250 I have what I consider to be an outstanding binaural set. I don't see myself upgrading anytime soon.

 
Where can you buy the T1.1 for $400? It's $700+ on amazon atm.

 
I highly doubt anyone can. It must have been used price or a one-off deal.

 

[whill]

I am no expert nor have the balanced connection but i believe, balanced connection only reduces if not eliminate the interference with other components. It does not create nor decrease the signal. Although it produces more gain compared to single ended connection, higher volume does not totaly equate to better sound (more detailed etc.)

This is just my opinion though i might also be wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting. So if there is not much difference, I wonder why Sennheiser put a balanced cable with the HD800S. I should be getting my headphones next week so I was wondering if I should bother looking for an amp with a balanced connector.

If i am not mistaken, this is a marketing strategy since many aftermarket amp is coming out with a "balanced connection" it will be a great opportunity to go with the trend. I believe balanced cables are produced due to the demand of properly shielded that can run in long lengths.

I am not against nor does not patronize to use it, but if the amp is fully balanced (not balanced input but unbalanced out) i think the signal will be clearer thus noise in the signal chain will be greatly reduced.

This is my thought and i can be wrong anytime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Alypius]

Where can you buy the T1.1 for $400?"

Mea culpa; I don't suppose it's fair to make cost comparisons based on an ebay sale (where I got the T1.1). However, even at roughly $700, I think I'd still get the 1.1 and use the savings toward music or other gear. If you can get the T1.2 for, say, $850, give or take, then it's much more subjective and personal. Hope that helps!

 

[LeMat]

Last week,I promised a comparison between the T1.2 and the HD800S…. here it is. 
Using the 2 outputs available on the Auralic Taurus made A/B ing between the 2 headphones really simple. 
 
First thing striking. They both have the same sound signature. They almost sound alike. Both are what I would call bright headphones. For those considering keeping both, I’m not sure it would be a wise choice. That being said, let’s focus on the details to tell them apart. 

1. Bass: The HD800S surprised me. Where the HD800 left me wanting wayyyyy more, the S version is certainly filling the bass spectrum. It’s punchy, it’s full, it’s clean. Nothing to say against it. T1.2 has a punchy and clean bass as well, it surprised me a couple of times with great bass extension and punch. Both are very good. T1.2 might sound a bit more bouncy, with a faster bass. HD800S bass appear a bit more distant, but I’m splitting hairs here. I couldn't try the T1.2 in balanced mode but the HD800S is indeed gaining some more punch this way. T1.2 wins here. I loved the LCD2 (pre-fazor) bass but the T1.2 is bringing something special to the table.
2. Medium: Now it’s different. HD800S has about +5db compared to the T1.2. HD800S is bringing you closer to the stage/singer. You can hear more details in the vocals but it’s also more in your face. T1.2 is presenting vocals in a more relaxed way. IMO mids are recessed on the T1.2 but it leaves you with a nice experience, closer to speakers than headphones. In terms of tonality, HD800S seems more accurate. For some reason, I feel the T1.2 has a pitch slightly skewed upward, giving a weird tonality to the music. Mids on the HD800s sound a bit drier too, but maybe because they are more forward. HD800S mids are not so different than the ones on the LCD2F. In both the upper mids are emphasized. For its accuracy and natural tones, HD800S wins here.
3. Highs. Huge difference here. T1.2 has a lot more presence in the highs. Both has a lot of finesse and nuance but with T1.2, you can’t miss it. It’s pushed way forward… creating some unbearable sibilance on some tracks (Depeche mode’s « in your room », terrible) . The peak is about +5db in the 8-10khz region. EQing it helps. Where the HD800S has a very uniform presentation across the spectrum. the T1.2 has as distinct signature in the highs. It’s more like a 3ways speakers than a headphone. Each range is presented in a different way whereas the HD800S is ruler flat, more cohesive. It’s up to you to decide if it's a pro or a cons. More accurate but less fun. Overall I would say the highs are more detailed with the T1.2 though. I'm torn here. Highs are so good but are so painful....
4. Soundstage. I  haven’t spent enough time with the HD800S but nothing striking. They are somewhat similar. The fact the mids are more forward on the HD800S might offset the fact they sound wider. In the end, soundstage is the roughly same. 
5. Versatility: I'll go against what I've read so far. T1.2 is not so versatile. It eats poor or average recordings for breakfast. It's mercyless. This thing is a scalpel. Feed it with something it likes and you're in for a treat. If you have some nostalgia and feel like listening for an old mp3 you have in stock, or this underground funk oldies from the 70's... it might hurt ! In that sense, HD800S seems more easy going.
6. Miscellaneous: Fit is different but both are comfy. HD800 is bigger with firmer pads. T1.2 is smaller and more padded. Quality wise, I'm a bit disappointed by the HD800s. Black looks nice in picture but in reality, it's just black plastic, and not the kind of one you can have on a Nikon reflex... not cheap but not great neither. Cables are more or less the same. Odd thing to note. You can really tweak the sound on the T1.2 by adjusting the placement over the ears... and it's not a subtle difference. HD800 are more or less immune to this trick.

 
So close but so different….that’s my conclusion. EQ’ed, they might sound the same, almost. Value wise, T1.2 is killing it. At half the price for 95% of the SQ, T1.2 is a no brainer….if you can live with its overly aggressive, or should I say forward, highs. I can't but I have no shame in using an EQ !
I will spend some more time with the HD800S but I think I'll keep the T1.2.... or listen to the Elear and maybe sell both

 

[Svatopluk]

Great review, you nailed it. The T-1.2 is outstanding for it's price.

 

[thatonenoob]

@LeMat spot on comparison, very nice.  I think the mids are partially recessed on the 1.2's due to the altered bass and treble response from the 1.1.  This also has implications for the highs, as it almost makes the transition from the mids a bit harsher.  With the originals it was very clear what sound sig the T1 was shooting for, and in this sense the sound was slightly more cohesive (but of course, less "accessible" as well).   I also love that you mentioned just how much the sound changes with the placement of the cups.  So true!

 

[kitsvancouver]

Lemay. This is such a great review that's understandable with meaningful choice of words. Personally, I have a hard time when trying to interpret review language like "buttery" so your review is very appreciated.

I ordered both with plans to keep both but maybe now I will only keep one pair.

 

[moriez]

   

1. Versatility: I'll go against what I've read so far. T1.2 is not so versatile.

 

Let me add that the Gen2 may not be as versatile as the HD 800S is (never heard it). For sure it's more versatile than the Gen1 which is very genre specific in my opinion.

 

[Arniesb]

Let me add that the Gen2 may not be as versatile as the HD 800S is (never heard it). For sure it's more versatile than the Gen1 which is very genre specific in my opinion.

And not only the HD 800S. Also my HE-500 and Hope VI and another bunch of recent try outs don't respond well, where both generation T1's have a surprisingly large tweaking ability. This is not to say the Beyers will now suit every man's preferences..

You're for real men? I listen T1 with the same music i whould with DT990 And HD650 + I listen a lot more Rock, Classic, Soundtracks and live music or concerts with T1 and besides that my shiity dac dont make T1 justice at all... Maybe you're just like calmer headphones? I also don't agree about T1.2 being more versatile than T1.1 ,because T1.2 isn't as good as T1.1 when it comes to Rock, Metal, Classic or music that requires energy.

 

[moriez]

As real as it gets
 
For convenience let me assume ''Soundtracks'' is something like Morricone. Then I could very well see that certain ''Rock, Classic, Soundtracks and live music or concerts'' is suitable for Gen1. Maybe we even have some overlap there. Depending on the recording Gen1 to me is mostly suitable for jazz, instrumental, acoustic, piano, vocal where sssibilance isn't killing it off and some pop.
 
The main reason I said genre specific is that a stock Gen1 sounds utter garbage to me when listening to for example electronic or rap and ofcourse records that are on the brighter side or loud. I can't imagine not wanting to turn the volume down and wishing for a Denon DX00 for low end impact or HD6x0 for high end roll off at those times.
 
Gen2 definitely deals with brightness and loudness better and that's the other reason my opinion is it's more versatile than Gen1. Versatility to me means an allrounder capable of presenting most music a person listens to enjoyably. In my personal collection there's a good number of crappy bright thin sounding music which Gen1 would only emphasize and make me just give up the hobby.
 
Honestly, could I have only one headphone Gen2 would be a contender. Gen1 wouldn't make the list I think.

 

[Arniesb]

As real as it gets

For convenience let me assume ''Soundtracks'' is something like Morricone. Then I could very well see that certain ''Rock, Classic, Soundtracks and live music or concerts'' is suitable for Gen1. Maybe we even have some overlap there. Depending on the recording Gen1 to me is mostly suitable for jazz, instrumental, acoustic, piano, vocal where sssibilance isn't killing it off and some pop.

The main reason I said genre specific is that a stock Gen1 sounds utter garbage to me when listening to for example electronic or rap and ofcourse records that are on the brighter side or loud. I can't imagine not wanting to turn the volume down and wishing for a Denon DX00 for low end impact or HD6x0 for high end roll off at those times.

Gen2 definitely deals with brightness and loudness better and that's the other reason my opinion is it's more versatile than Gen1. Versatility to me means an allrounder capable of presenting most music a person listens to enjoyably. In my personal collection there's a good number of crappy bright thin sounding music which Gen1 would only emphasize and make me just give up the hobby.

Honestly, could I have only one headphone Gen2 would be a contender for being detailed ''on the safe side''. Gen1 wouldn't make the list I think.

Whitout Warm amp and dac thats true, but with warm amp and warm dac i can listen every genre. Mojo + Beyerdynamic A2 or Rega Dac R + A2 was achieving good warm and spacious sound when i first listen T1. Well, atleast for me.

 

[LeMat]

Whitout Warm amp and dac thats true, but with warm amp and warm dac i can listen every genre. Mojo + Beyerdynamic A2 or Rega Dac R + A2 was achieving good warm and spacious sound when i first listen T1. Well, atleast for me.

Is a headphone really versatile when you need to pair it with a warm sounding rig ? 
T1.2 is ok on all genre. I would say it's more picky about the quality of the recording than genre. 
Now my comment on versatility was not to be taken in absolute terms but in comparison with the HD800S. I could live with just the T1.2. After a while it's true you get used to it, at least to some extent. I'm not saying it will be a bliss each time but it's ok, no headphone are perfect all rounder. Bump up the mids, tame down the highs and it will be ok, maybe add a tube VST if your setup is too transparent or revealing. Done. I prefer cans like this which are too good (first time I don't consider switching the stock cables) and tweak the sound than the other way around, like trying to improve on a HD650 (the infamous veil)

 

[Me x3]

  I would say it's more picky about the quality of the recording than genre. 

This applies also to the T1.1 in my experience. It's a very good all rounder as long as your recordings are slightly better than average.
My HD800 on the other side are more suitable for audiophile stuff exclusively.

 

[thatonenoob]

I do not have extensive experience with the HD800s, but the few times I've heard it I have been impressed. It is a well rounded headphone that is much more agreeable than the original HD800. Now, for the T1. I am of the opinion that the T1 (both g1 and g2) is fairly well rounded. I think the higher registers have the tendency to be a bit overbearing at times, but it is not genre limiting. To me it is more of a matter of sound preference. The T1 has a slightly unpredictable treble perfomance that provides the occassional zing. It is this very fact that draws me to the T1. It wouldn't be entirely accurate to say the headphones aren't rounded when the very source of the issue is perhaps the sound characteristic of the headphone itself. Only a few tracks are completely unlistenable...Seal's songs being one of them. GNR is also somewhat less visceral than I would like as well. However, I do find the T1 to really be perfect for electronic. The imaging and panning capabilities of the T1 really do wonders in creating a spatial sound.

For the record I enjoy the T1 fairly well out of a SS. I find it can change quite happily according to amping, which makes ot versatile in a sense. However I don't have a huge need tonfix the T1's sound sig.

 

[moriez]

 

Whitout Warm amp and dac thats true, but with warm amp and warm dac i can listen every genre. Mojo + Beyerdynamic A2 or Rega Dac R + A2 was achieving good warm and spacious sound when i first listen T1. Well, atleast for me.

Quote:

 

Is a headphone really versatile when you need to pair it with a warm sounding rig ? 

 
Good point but I think that's another kind of versatile. You can't plug in any headphone into any rig and expect great sound let alone have it sound its best right?
 
 
Quote:

 

 I would say it's more picky about the quality of the recording than genre

 
Fully agreed. I should have mentioned this. Quality is more factual and less a preference like genre is.
 
 
Quote:

 
 It's a very good all rounder as long as your recordings are slightly better than average.

 However, I do find the T1 to really be perfect for electronic. The imaging and panning capabilities of the T1 really do wonders in creating a spatial sound.

 
I'm quite stunned opinions can be this far off..
 
@thatonenoob this surely must be beatless electronic music? I never heard the T1's do a proper house beat in a satisfying way.