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However. I'm very familiar with the Jecklin story and Jecklin - QUAD. That type of product can only really exist in the niche market, and thats fine by me.It also is not 5 grand a pop. The lesson there is find your target and stick with it. Short of a buyout by a large org they will continue merrily along.
Yes, that's what I was saying. You seemed to imply that the new Floats were a failure because they weren't meeting the HD800's pricepoint, or at least that's how I read your response. I responded by saying they're two very different niche markets, despite both being high-end audiophilia. Your language of "killing the Floats" suggested this.
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There are more than a few eyeing the Abyss driver with a wary eye. Technical achievement, sure, longevity, questionable, we wait we see. Nobody is debating the effort put into it. by the same token how many manu's do you see actively whining about their RD costs? What I am seeing, and this is just opinion here, is a company woefully underequipped to embark on this type of venture. "Feel the earth move under my feet", anyone? High price point to cover RD startup costs would have a vencapper apoplectic. It's a hallmark sign and not a good one.
Actually yes, people
are debating that they put effort into it. Unless I somehow conjured the posts about JPS charging people for a $5k cable and a $500 headphone, the posts about their "taking people for a ride," etc. out of my imagination.
As for gaze of countless weary eyes, there have also been a few posts by orthoheads like dBel who are very excited about the Abyss driver. Posts that seem to be ignored in favor of the ones about popsicle sticks and ugly women, because let's be honest: this thread is more about people getting to feel good about trashing a $5k product. I'm not even saying there's anything
wrong with that, or that this thread doesn't serve some kind of self-styled purpose of sending a message to manufacturers (or whatever). Just pointing out the underlying impetus for
most of the posts here.
Also I'm in no way suggesting their business model is sound. There are ways of not passing the costs off onto the consumer. Look at Audez'e, sure. However my point was that there is genuine R&D going into the drivers.
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I'm sure their entire production is sold out. The fact that review samples seem to be nonexistant would bear that out. The attempts to charge for review samples is yet another thing. that again is not a healthy sign.
Oh, I fully agree with you. JPS is not going about their PR well at all in my opinion. The fact is they're not offering review samples period so far as I know. The "charging for a review sample" is a bit of a misrepresentation. The fact is, you can audition one at The Cable Co. for a 5% non refundable deposit. This is the policy Cable Co. uses for ALL of their lending library headphones, not just the Abyss. That 5% fee, of course, becomes almost $300 when you consider the cost of the Abyss, so yes it's quite an investment. However Cable Co. allows you to apply that amount to future purchases of whatever else they stock.
I personally think JPS should offer demo units for a full
refundable deposit to people.
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There seems to be this trend in "high end" audio to crap all over customers. Lets charge restocking for review samples. Lets release players with firmware that does not support the functions we claim and promise an update real soon. Lets pop a cmoy in a box and charge 20 X what you could buy it for on TheBay. These are all just greed induced cash grabs at their worst.
Your point of Euro and Asian businessmen using them as novelty gifts illustrates the issue here. The value in the product is that is has no value. In some perverse Mcluhanistic otherworld called Audiophillia the outrageous price is the message and the higher the price the stronger the message.
Yes, indeed. These are all things that occur in our hobby, and I've posted at length in the past that the full-sized headphone market is in a sorry state right now, so I would agree with much of that.
My example of the businessmen was meant to illustrate the point that the Abyss will sell, regardless of whether we champion it as head-fi summit-fi approved or not. Again, this was in response to your post about stuff not selling well because it's not priced like the HD800. This wasn't a justification for the Abyss. I too find the price of the Abyss to be a problem. I'm not whistling dixie about it.
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I'd point out that Sennheiser did not start the company with the HD800, it was built gradually and with the profits from a well run business the HD800 at it's current price was made possible. Suddenly it seems en vogue to Start at the top, questionable business practice at best.
The technology itself. Look at where the industry is at now. Pancake dynamic drivers with impregnated voice coils are moving toward the ortho end of the spectrum. In about 5 years time there will be a very blurred line as to what we consdier an ortho or dynamic driver. That is being driven by the big boys and where do you suspect that will leave the small fry with the obscene price tag?
Again, I agree re: Sennheiser. They've earned their reputation. In the case of Sennheiser, again, I was referring to your point about HD800 prices. Most small companies simply can't charge what Sennheiser can for turnarounds on R&D.
And I'm sorry, but I'm just not seeing big guys like AKG and Beyer doing anything worthwhile right now. Sennheiser has their ring driver, they're tinkering around with orthos from what some insiders say, and they have a new 'stat that may come out in a thousand years, sure. But honestly the state of the full-sized market is just sad right now, and it's the smaller guys who seem to be doing most of the worthwhile stuff. If larger manufacturers are even
eyeing orthos right now, it's because Audez'e and HiFiman---smaller guys---brought them back from the grave. Smaller companies are more likely to be risk takers. I'd love it if Yamaha or Fostex decided to get back into the ortho market and release a smaller-sized, easier-to-drive ortho for $500. But that's not likely to happen. Plus why would I trust someone like Beyer any more than a smalltime cable maker? Beyer, who doesn't even seem to understand how damping works (or care) despite their making headphones longer than anyone?
