[Mike F]

Mike, you guys are way too polite, headstef was addressing me.
From the start I was trying to stress that the NDH20 and also the NDH30 are not, design wise, attributable to Neumann. None of the parts were at anytime designed to function as a whole toward creating the Neumann headphones, they were pulled together and function more or less as intended. If we look at Focal, Sennheiser, AKG all of the hesdphones are designed from the ground up so the the baffle, cups and driver are directed to serve a unifying goal.
The basis for the Neuman, the HD630VB works very well , from the ear cups, baffle, headband and most importantly the drivers were designed to work together, this is not the case with the Neumann headphones, save the NDH20 but the pads soften the dynamics. And yes I've expressed my doubts as to what the overall sound output would be, and was finally confirmed, not too my wishes, but by keeping the overall sound signature in safe territory the sound is flat, overly pleasant and IMHO lacks dynamics, pedestrian as I mentioned, these attributes may work fine as monitor but as a competitive phone for getting the most, emotionally out of a musical performance, they do not, "for me".
I believe these findings have been expressed elsewhere, just saw one such review......but as it may be partially negative will be dismissed. lol
https://www.headphonesty.com/2023/04/review-neumann-ndh-30/
"Bottom Line
They are, however, a pair of decently proficient modern headphones - with one serious flaw. What all but ruins the NDH 30 for me are the lack of impact and bite. The listening experience is quite informative - you can tell the music is happening, but it isn’t happening to you. They may work for sound professionals. I can imagine many being wowed by the detail and lack of ear fatigue. I recommend that everyone audition the Neumann NDH 30 before buying."

This exactly what I was expressing.


Sorry never, marketing speak, yes,

Rob, that review has been discussed a few times on this thread before. I've pointed to the major caveat (IMO) of that review which is that the reviewer is an ex Sonarworks guy who is a die-hard HD 650 fan (that's pretty obvious even from just reading the review), so nothing can be better than the HD 650. Check the sonar works headphone review blog https://www.sonarworks.com/blog/gear-reviews/page/4
They even score the HD 650 higher than the HD 800S, so that's the background that the reviewer is coming from and the perspective that you have to read that review with.

As for you comments about the background and construction of the NDH 30, I'm still chuckling.......

But yes, we get it, you don't like the NDH 30. Fine......

Edit: The reviews the HD 650 and HD 800S on Sonarworks were written by the same person that wrote the review you sited.

 

[Vitaliy Belz]

From the start I was trying to stress that the NDH20 and also the NDH30 are not, design wise, attributable to Neumann

But Neumann is attributable by Sennheiser. For over 32 years

If we look at Focal, Sennheiser, AKG all of the hesdphones are designed from the ground up so the the baffle, cups and driver are directed to serve a unifying goal.

HD600, 650, 660s, 660s2 designed from up?

 

[Rob80b]

But Neumann is attributable by Sennheiser. For over 32 years

Sorry that is not what I'm addressing.

HD600, 650, 660s, 660s2 designed from up?

Yes, starting with the HD580....

 

[Vitaliy Belz]

Sorry that is not what I'm addressing.

I understand you, you probably would like Neumann to abandon the rather successful design of the previous HD 630VB and create completely new headphones? I don't understand why you decided that Neumann couldn't use all the experience of developing and manufacturing previous Sennheiser headphones, if they are the same company with the same engineers. After all, for example, Axel Grell participated in the development of the same NDH 30...
Then Sennheiser should not have used the HD580 developments and chassis in the HD's I listed

 

[kman1211]

Sorry that is not what I'm addressing.

Yes, starting with the HD580....

Honestly only the HD 580 of the HD 6xx series is built from the ground up. The rest are simply evolutions of the HD 580. Just as the NDH-20/30 are evolutions and also a repurpose of the HD 630VB chassis and also like the HD 630VB use an evolution of the HD 595 driver.

The HD 580, HD 800, and a few others are the only ones truly built from the ground up. The rest use evolutions of drivers and/or chassis.

It’s very common for a headphone manufacturer to use a repurposed chassis, parts, and/or drivers among multiple models. It’s very common in manufacturing in general as it saves tooling costs, etc.

 

[chesebert]

HD 630VB and NDH30 are nothing alike.

HD 630VB:

NDH30:

On the other hand, it's easy to tell the evolution from HD580 to HD650:

HD580

HD650

 

[Beagle]

Mike, you guys are way too polite, headstef was addressing me.
From the start I was trying to stress that the NDH20 and also the NDH30 are not, design wise, attributable to Neumann. None of the parts were at anytime designed to function as a whole toward creating the Neumann headphones, they were pulled together and function more or less as intended. If we look at Focal, Sennheiser, AKG all of the hesdphones are designed from the ground up so the the baffle, cups and driver are directed to serve a unifying goal.
The basis for the Neuman, the HD630VB works very well , from the ear cups, baffle, headband and most importantly the drivers were designed to work together, this is not the case with the Neumann headphones, save the NDH20 but the pads soften the dynamics. And yes I've expressed my doubts as to what the overall sound output would be, and was finally confirmed, not too my wishes, but by keeping the overall sound signature in safe territory the sound is flat, overly pleasant and IMHO lacks dynamics, pedestrian as I mentioned, these attributes may work fine as monitor but as a competitive phone for getting the most, emotionally out of a musical performance, they do not, "for me".
I believe these findings have been expressed elsewhere, just saw one such review......but as it may be partially negative will be dismissed. lol
https://www.headphonesty.com/2023/04/review-neumann-ndh-30/
"Bottom Line
They are, however, a pair of decently proficient modern headphones - with one serious flaw. What all but ruins the NDH 30 for me are the lack of impact and bite. The listening experience is quite informative - you can tell the music is happening, but it isn’t happening to you. They may work for sound professionals. I can imagine many being wowed by the detail and lack of ear fatigue. I recommend that everyone audition the Neumann NDH 30 before buying."

This exactly what I was expressing.


Sorry never, marketing speak, yes,

It is rather bland, blase, and nondescript. But that was the point of the exercise. It’s an open back studio monitor. Whatever judgements are made using it have to translate to the outside world and whatever other gear.

Many will be satisfied with the NDH30 for its “just the facts” and “do no harm” approach. Those looking to be “entertained” should look elsewhere.

But the NDH30 could never be my only headphone. I definitely need fun and entertainment on occasion.

 

[Rob80b]

HD 630VB and NDH30 are nothing alike.

Exactly, case closed.

On the other hand, it's easy to tell the evolution from HD580 to HD650:

 

[MayorSimpleton]

Jeeez this thread has become so tedious.

 

[Rob80b]

Sorry folks, hard to let this one go, one more (for limited time only) and then I'm done.

May be I should have, given how inexplicably uncorrelated to the NDH 30 (my pair of NDH 30) your impressions are.

But you have,many, many, many times...from what you have expressed all along I did give you the benefit of the doubt in that possibly my auditions did not show the true potential of the Neumann and finally purchased my own pair in anticipation, to actual try with my music and systems....

subjective impression is that the Utopia 2022 (never listened to the OG) sounded just a (tiny) bit more natural and effortless but I must repeat that the two headphones were very, very close

Ok....????

They are two of the best dynamic headphones ever, both revealing how good the other is, if you can see my point.

hhhmmm......????

Anyway, its bass is going very low, like a good closed back headphone, but without overemphasis or loss of control. It is full of detail and information, but weighty and linear at the same time, no matter how loud you listen. Really excellent and serving electronic music with authority and precision.

This is where in my books the NDH30 performed most poorly, lacking in visceral impact and that I want to get up and dance element.

And again today....

I am sorry to remind you once again that it does sound to the majority of people reporting here like what a fine example of a $1500 headphone should be. Almost faultless by absolute standards. It is gifted with naturalness, balance, resolution, speed, timbre, communication at a very high degree.

of a majority of how many 5 or 6?

How can I deny the above mentioned set of qualities when they appear and surprise me (or Mike) on every recording?

You may find that the phones are the greatest, I was unable to, but there other phones I feel somewhat similar about, HD650 for example ..... so lets chalk it up expectations, leniency or whatever .... done. Amen
(my 1st real rebuttal in almost 20 years )

 

[Rob80b]

NDH-30 (black!) is breaking in with Violectric HPA V200 … … a few sneak listens … amazingly balanced, clear, sculpted, spacious … augurs well! … … curious to match ‘120 ohm’ NDH-30 with ‘100 ohm’ Beyer A20 … …

They look great jonathon, obviously bitter sweet for me but I'm a hard nut to crack and all the accolades thrown at them had possible given maybe unreasonable expectations, c'est la vie!... but ignore this old fogey and enjoy. : )
I actually currently have my eye on a Violectric DHA-V266, don't need the DAC though.

​

 

[Rob80b]

I had very high hopes for this headphone, since I am also convinced that perceived sound does not necessarily increase with a products price tag.

They certainly have a sound similar to studio monitors and therefore might be great mixing tools. The bass also reaches really deep for a dynamic headphone, and sounds more textured than the hd6xx series.

But I have to say, that I am neither impressed with the soundstage, nor with the imaging. Worst of all, these drivers seem to really struggle in busy music passages and therefore really remind me of cheap headphones. Entry level hifimans destroy these headphones with complex music, even the hd6xx series does a better job in my regard.

Anyways, I don’t want to bash this headphone and still believe it can be a very helpful tool for professionals, but seriously the driver technicalities (or however you want to call it) really disappointed me. I think it is important to share my negative experience, since this headphone is really hyped up and lacks important critical impressions.

For reference I directly compared these to hd580, lcd2.1, lcdx and elite.

Ditto.

 

[erics75]

And just to divert everyone's attention. : )
https://www.facebook.com/reel/706132504248065

Legos? Really Sennheiser? So annoyed… really want the rumored closed 6 series.

 

[457139]

It is rather bland, blase, and nondescript. But that was the point of the exercise. It’s an open back studio monitor. Whatever judgements are made using it have to translate to the outside world and whatever other gear.

Many will be satisfied with the NDH30 for its “just the facts” and “do no harm” approach. Those looking to be “entertained” should look elsewhere.

But the NDH30 could never be my only headphone. I definitely need fun and entertainment on occasion.

I respected what the NDH30 was going for, but it did get a bit boring to me after a bit. At the end of a short trial period I just liked my HD600s better. There's a bit of magic with the 600 that NDH30 lacks to my ears.

The NDH30 is a legit great headphone though, just wasn't for me.

 

[Rob80b]

Legos? Really Sennheiser? So annoyed… really want the rumored closed 6 series.

Sorry no Legos...."Accentum"
https://www.soundguys.com/sennheiser-accentum-wireless-headphones-100154/