Neumann NDH 30
May 14, 2023 at 10:31 AM Post #2,176 of 4,939
Are there any Neumann NDH 30 frequency response curves here or on the Internet? Or also THD curves or waterfall curves?
Or did I overlook something in the thread?
You can find this for many common headphones, but not for the Neumann NDH 30.
 
May 14, 2023 at 10:59 AM Post #2,177 of 4,939
Ok i would simply say this as a last thought. My Neumann"s sound much better when i use single ended in and balanced out vs single ended in and single ended out. Just not enough headroom using full single ended with SA 1.
Hence my next purchase will be a geshelli j2 balanced dac. Reasonable cost for that unit.
I was just trying to make the point that SE vs XLR cables w/o looking at the factors in the electronics is liable not to be a full answer.

We all have to decide what works best for each of us, and i was not suggesting anyone do this or that specific thing, just to look into more details.
 
May 14, 2023 at 11:10 AM Post #2,178 of 4,939
Are there any Neumann NDH 30 frequency response curves here or on the Internet? Or also THD curves or waterfall curves?
Or did I overlook something in the thread?
You can find this for many common headphones, but not for the Neumann NDH 30.
The ASR review dated 5/6/23 has harmonic distortion charts. I have not seen any CSD plots. Not including review sites that sell these, and some pro sites (which I am not qualified to know which are serious), these cans have not really excited the "audiophile/mid->upper sites" around the web outside of Head-Fi. Evaluate that as you will.

EDIT ADD: There are a number of FR graphs which google has no trouble providing,
 
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May 14, 2023 at 1:18 PM Post #2,179 of 4,939
Are there any Neumann NDH 30 frequency response curves here or on the Internet? Or also THD curves or waterfall curves?
Or did I overlook something in the thread?
You can find this for many common headphones, but not for the Neumann NDH 30.
This one is from here: Neumann NDH 30 - Frequency Response - headphonecheck.com

1684084694894.png
 
May 14, 2023 at 2:06 PM Post #2,180 of 4,939
May 14, 2023 at 3:56 PM Post #2,181 of 4,939
May 14, 2023 at 5:39 PM Post #2,182 of 4,939
I was just trying to make the point that SE vs XLR cables w/o looking at the factors in the electronics is liable not to be a full answer.

We all have to decide what works best for each of us, and i was not suggesting anyone do this or that specific thing, just to look into more details.
I agree absolutely your point is the right one, for what it's worth. And I meant only to reinforce that that it's the amplification differences between the phono and 4-pin XLR outputs in some amps that can affect the performance of phones. In other words, the point of choosing one cable over another in these cases is to choose between the different output characteristics the amp offers. Personally, I'm not persuaded that headphone cables - unless really awful - are likely to affect the performance of phones. But there's no doubt that selecting the 4-pin XLR output will in some cases offer a dramatic increase in power at least - and generally you need a cable with a 4-pin termination to get that.
 
May 15, 2023 at 1:42 AM Post #2,183 of 4,939
May 15, 2023 at 5:26 AM Post #2,184 of 4,939
May 15, 2023 at 6:02 AM Post #2,185 of 4,939
May 16, 2023 at 6:24 PM Post #2,187 of 4,939
Hi-Fi can be full of surprises. Yesterday I had a chance to listen to and compare three fine headphones, under very good conditions: The Neumann NDH 30, the Focal Clear MG Pro and the Focal Utopia (2022). On a 3-day family vacation in Athens I took my NDH 30 with me, just in case I could find some time for hi-fi shopping. On Monday a very helpful dealer told me on the phone that there was a good opportunity for headphones auditioning since there were no bookings for loudspeaker system demos for the day. I rushed there with my Neumann in hand and I was able to listen for just less than 2 hours, in a mostly quiet environment, through the Naim Uniti Atom - Headphones Edition (a streamer/dac/head-amp, rather expensive at about € 2.800 but what a fine device!) and using Tidal.
As a matter of fact I went to the shop thinking I could finally have a good listen of the Clear MG but arriving there I saw that the Utopia 2022 was also available for listening. So I asked for the single-ended cables for both Focals and listened to all three headphones using the exact same electronics (the Naim single ended output). The Focals were well used/"broken in", they where demo units after all.

It is true that one or two hours is not really enough for definite conclusions, so please consider the following as just first impressions with a degree of uncertainty. (I am trying to do the same). So here it is:

I listened to many tracks, initially giving equal time to all three headphones. I must say that their differences where rather minor by absolute standards and all three where indeed of very high class sonically. They also sounded nicely balanced with no need for EQing. But soon an unexpected thing happened: I started to feel that one headphone was very slightly left behind by the other two in terms of fine detail, vocal/instrumental timbre and above all naturalness. It was the Clear MG. Compared with the other two it sounded just a little bit shouty at times, which I felt was masking some very fine timbral detail. Also I had a constant sense of a little more natural and smooth mids and highs with the Utopia and the Neumann. The music was flowing a bit more effortlessly, coherently and naturally with these two than with the Clear MG Pro. Thus, instead of comparing the NDH 30 with the Clear Mg as I intended, gradually I lost interest for the Clear MG and ended up comparing the 30 with the Utopia(!) I had to listen very carefully and methodically because these two were very close. They seem to share a quite similar natural balance, but also a very close resolving ability, to the point of not being able to tell if one was more resolving. However, there were times that the Utopia sounded ever so slightly smoother or better flowing, offering a little more seductive presentation, while the Neumann had some "fresher" and crisper moments. Returning to the NDH 30 after the Utopia never sounded like a downgrade or a change of price class. The NDH 30 stays up there at the top, sounding frighteningly resolving, natural and dynamic. It also sounds like offering a little fuller sub-bass than both the Focals but the Utopia is very close. Returning to the Clear MG after any of the other two, only gave a slight sense of loss of their finest qualities and never sounded like bringing something interesting. One thing of which I am very certain is that the Utopia 2022 is audibly and definitely superior to the Clear Mg. If I had to place the NDH 30 somewhere between them it would be much closer to the Utopia than the Clear.
After my listening time ended (it was nearly closing time), the kind person that helped me at the shop accepted my offer to listen to the NDH 30 with great interest, as he never had the chance before (the NDH 30 is hard to find available for demoing). I will continue with this part and more impressions in another post.
 
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May 16, 2023 at 6:29 PM Post #2,188 of 4,939
Hi-Fi can be full of surprises. Yesterday I had a chance to listen to and compare three fine headphones, under very good conditions: The Neumann NDH 30, the Focal Clear MG Pro and the Focal Utopia (2022). On a 3-day family vacation in Athens I took my NDH 30 with me, just in case I could find some time for hi-fi shopping. On Monday a very helpful dealer told me on the phone that there was a good opportunity for headphones auditioning since there were no bookings for loudspeaker system demos for the day. I rushed there with my Neumann in hand and I was able to listen for just less than 2 hours, in a mostly quiet environment, through the Naim Uniti Atom - Headphones Edition (a streamer/dac/head-amp, rather expensive at about € 2.800 but what a fine device!) and using Tidal.
As a matter of fact I went to the shop thinking I could finally have a good listen of the Clear MG but arriving there I saw that the Utopia 2022 was also available for listening. So I asked for the single-ended cables for both Focals and listened to all three headphones using the exact same electronics (the Naim single ended output). The Focals were well used/"broken in", they where demo units after all.

It is true that one or two hours is not really enough for definite conclusions, so please consider the following as just first impressions with a degree of uncertainty. (I am trying to do the same). So here it is:

I listened to many tracks, initially giving equal time to all three headphones. I must say that their differences where rather minor by absolute standards and all three where indeed of very high class sonically. They also sounded nicely balanced with no need for EQing. But soon an unexpected thing happened: I started to feel that one headphone was very slightly left behind by the other two in terms of fine detail, vocal/instrumental timbre and above all naturallness. It was the Clear MG. Compared with the other two it sounded just a little bit shouty at times, which I felt was masking some very fine timbral detail. Also I had a constant sense of a little more natural and smooth mids and highs with the Utopia and the Neumann. The music was flowing a bit more effortlessly, coherently and naturally with these two than with the Clear MG Pro. Thus, instead of comparing the NDH 30 with the Clear Mg as I intended, gradually I lost interest for the Clear MG and ended up comparing the 30 with the Utopia(!) I had to listen very carefully and methodically because these two were very close. They seem to share a quite similar natural balance, but also a very close resolving ability, to the point of not being able to tell if one was more resolving. However, there were times that the Utopia sounded ever so slightly smoother or better flowing, offering a little more seductive presentation, while the Neumann had some "fresher" and crisper moments. Returning to the NDH 30 after the Utopia never sounded like a downgrade or a change of price class. The NDH 30 stays up there at the top, sounding frighteningly resolving, natural and dynamic. It also sounds like offering a little fuller sub-bass than both the Focals but the Utopia is very close. Returning to the Clear MG after any of the other two, only gave a slight sense of loss of their finest qualities and never sounded like bringing something interesting. One thing of which I am very certain is that the Utopia 2022 is audibly and definitely superior to the Clear Mg. If I had to place the NDH 30 somewhere between them it would be much closer to the Utopia than the Clear.
After my listening time ended (it was nearly closing time), the kind person that helped me at the shop accepted my offer to listen to the NDH 30 with great interest, as he never had the chance before (the NDH 30 is hard to find available for demoing). I will continue with this part an more impressions in another post.
Thanks for this - very interesting. I've owned the Utopia, Clear and the NDH30 - and prefer the Neumann by a considerable margin.
 
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May 16, 2023 at 6:31 PM Post #2,189 of 4,939
Hi-Fi can be full of surprises. Yesterday I had a chance to listen to and compare three fine headphones, under very good conditions: The Neumann NDH 30, the Focal Clear MG Pro and the Focal Utopia (2022). On a 3-day family vacation in Athens I took my NDH 30 with me, just in case I could find some time for hi-fi shopping. On Monday a very helpful dealer told me on the phone that there was a good opportunity for headphones auditioning since there were no bookings for loudspeaker system demos for the day. I rushed there with my Neumann in hand and I was able to listen for just less than 2 hours, in a mostly quiet environment, through the Naim Uniti Atom - Headphones Edition (a streamer/dac/head-amp, rather expensive at about € 2.800 but what a fine device!) and using Tidal.
As a matter of fact I went to the shop thinking I could finally have a good listen of the Clear MG but arriving there I saw that the Utopia 2022 was also available for listening. So I asked for the single-ended cables for both Focals and listened to all three headphones using the exact same electronics (the Naim single ended output). The Focals were well used/"broken in", they where demo units after all.

It is true that one or two hours is not really enough for definite conclusions, so please consider the following as just first impressions with a degree of uncertainty. (I am trying to do the same). So here it is:

I listened to many tracks, initially giving equal time to all three headphones. I must say that their differences where rather minor by absolute standards and all three where indeed of very high class sonically. They also sounded nicely balanced with no need for EQing. But soon an unexpected thing happened: I started to feel that one headphone was very slightly left behind by the other two in terms of fine detail, vocal/instrumental timbre and above all naturalness. It was the Clear MG. Compared with the other two it sounded just a little bit shouty at times, which I felt was masking some very fine timbral detail. Also I had a constant sense of a little more natural and smooth mids and highs with the Utopia and the Neumann. The music was flowing a bit more effortlessly, coherently and naturally with these two than with the Clear MG Pro. Thus, instead of comparing the NDH 30 with the Clear Mg as I intended, gradually I lost interest for the Clear MG and ended up comparing the 30 with the Utopia(!) I had to listen very carefully and methodically because these two were very close. They seem to share a quite similar natural balance, but also a very close resolving ability, to the point of not being able to tell if one was more resolving. However, there were times that the Utopia sounded ever so slightly smoother or better flowing, offering a little more seductive presentation, while the Neumann had some "fresher" and crisper moments. Returning to the NDH 30 after the Utopia never sounded like a downgrade or a change of price class. The NDH 30 stays up there at the top, sounding frighteningly resolving, natural and dynamic. It also sounds like offering a little fuller sub-bass than both the Focals but the Utopia is very close. Returning to the Clear MG after any of the other two, only gave a slight sense of loss of their finest qualities and never sounded like bringing something interesting. One thing of which I am very certain is that the Utopia 2022 is audibly and definitely superior to the Clear Mg. If I had to place the NDH 30 somewhere between them it would be much closer to the Utopia than the Clear.
After my listening time ended (it was nearly closing time), the kind person that helped me at the shop accepted my offer to listen to the NDH 30 with great interest, as he never had the chance before (the NDH 30 is hard to find available for demoing). I will continue with this part and more impressions in another post.
Excellent write up. Thanks for sharing your experiences :)
 
May 17, 2023 at 4:41 AM Post #2,190 of 4,939
How is the bass on the NDH-30? I'm looking for a HP that can do bass well, compared to my Grados in order to enjoy primarily Instrumental Metal Progressive music but also Eletronica.

I was leaning towards an used open planar HP like the Meze Empyrean or similars but not sure what to do, especially because trying HP before buying is kind of impossible where I'm from.

Cheers.
 

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