[luukas]

One last question:

Suppose I bought the UB802 and the DT770 Pro. Which would be preferable, the 250 or the 80 ohm model? Of course I might get an actual amp for them later, so that could be taken into consideration aswell.

 

[Geek]

Also, the DT770 sucks if you're going to use it for (A) gaming and (B) aren't buying a $1,000 amp to go along with it.

My reasoning is something like this: I owned the DT770 and the DT250-80. While the DT770 had more of a high end, it also had a very colored sound and it is too bassy for gaming, i.e, the bottom end sounds bloated, thick, and out of control, which makes it difficult to track opponents because the ambient bass is so loud.

The DT250-80 puts you in the "hotseat" and is sure to keep you awake while you game. It makes things up close and personal without revealing the horrible quality of your game's ogg vorbis at 64k loops (snicker) or your game's poorly recorded mp3 music files.

I think that while the DT770 is a fun phone, its ultimately not as good as the DT250-80 for gaming, and requires at least a thousand dollar class A amp to settle down and control its ridiculously overboosted bass. Again, if you want bass for gaming, probably this phone or the sony V700s are the best choice, but they absolutely fail to deliver on an "upfront" sound required for gaming and so on.

Bangraman,

I don't understand what you're talking about when you refer to the DT770 having better "image cues." The DT250-80s have MUCH better imaging when it comes to midrange sounds (vocals) and do just as good a job, if not a better one, at pinpointing the direction of footsteps. Both headphones (and all headphones in my experience even in binaural situations) can't help you with front/back sounds. You'll have to rotate your character 90 degrees to hear where the sound is coming from with either phone.

If you get a DT770, you'll end up cringing and buying a $200 amp, then cringing some more when you realise the overly bright treble won't go away but merely gets louder. Save yourself the pain and get the DT250s!

I'd recommend the AKG K271S but it needs a class A amp as well (it only started sounding good for me on the headroom cosmic reference or maxed out home).

Cheers,
Geek

 

[bangraman]

Well.. I guess you take your pinch of salt with either recommendation. The DT250's have adequate spacial cues but are not as good in my opinion. Let's face it, with their isolation (not as good as other closed phones in this general category) you need closer staging because external noises will overpower the ability of the phones to convey direction. And there are a number of phones which do the 'close staging' better too.


I'm not sure how you test your phones for gaming, but I used to use a variety of 1st person shooters while aiming at a stationary noise-emitting target , spin around with the up-down axis on lock and then close eyes and turn around slowly and shoot. Assess hit. I also have tested with some phones to point and identify where I'm being shot at from in nearly the same manner... make myself invulnerable, let an AI shoot me and track them with my eyes closed. After a while open eyes and see how close my reticule was to the AI. All phones do up and down very badly so I try and choose a flat terrain to do this.


Good phones for gaming:
Quite a lot, but among them would be the HD280 Pro and DT250-80. The 271 I haven't tested... I wouldn't really be able to guess, but I guess my guess would be different to your guess

Borderline Exceptional

: Sony MDR-CD1700

Exceptional phones for gaming:
Audio-Technica ATH-A900
Beyerdynamic DT770-250


Perhaps it's because you're using 'audiophile' amps Geek that you don't think the DT770's can deliver adequate imaging for gaming. I'm not sure how the DT770-80 swings things around because I've never bought them.


It seems practically every phone you like needs a $1,000+ amp in your opinion Geek. (Not to mention that said $1,000+ amp seems to be built more or less specifically for the HD600) Funny that practically every recording studio on this planet doesn't have one of those, eh?

 

[luukas]

I think I can sum up my current mood with one word: Argh!

Even more so because I can not audition the 250-80 anywhere.

Added: Maybe I should add that I'd much prefer closed phones that can replace my Grados. And while the A900 might be such, I'm not going to risk it, especially with the no-return policy.

More confusion!: I searched for comparisons between the 770 & 250, but came out with another problem - the 250-250 is better than the 250-80? Wonder how they'd work with the Behringer?

 

[Kixyll]

I'll make it very easy for you:

Go to Guitar Center, and buy the DT770 Pro 80 Ohm (or somewhere else if you can find cheaper). They are driven easily out of a computer soundcard, and imo can't be beat for gaming.

You will not be disappointed. I used to compete heavily in Quake/Q2/Q3, and still compete in BF1942. These headphones are hands down the best FPS phones I have ever used. I've used HD650s, V6's, A900s, and even a pair of 3k's that a friend let me borrow, and I prefer the 770/80 ohm over all of them.

 

[kikkomaso]

Kixyll, does the DT770-80s bass muddle the positional cues in more precision games? Geek mentioned that Quote:

The DT250-80s have a more articulate sounding bass (hits faster) than the DT770. In this respect its a lot punchier. However, the DT250 doesn't go as deep as the DT770.

and I've noticed that you mainly play games where there are always explosions, chatter, gunfire present at all times. My primary game is counter-strike and I usually only play scrims/matches for my CAL-I team. Since it's basically a sin to make loud noises after the first 15 seconds, I need a headphone that will enable me to hear the slightest positional cues such as when enemies reload, scope, fall, or prime a nade from a good distance away or from behind barriers.

 

[Kixyll]

I've played a lot of CS also, and my recommendation holds. I've never heard the 250s, but I would heartily recommend the 770/80s.

 

[Jodiuh]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kixyll ...my recommendation holds. I've never heard the 250s...

Come on man, don't go doing that. It's the cardinal sin of advice. If you haven't, you can't. I have heard the 250's 80ohm and the 770's 250ohm, but do not have enough exp. with the 250's to differentiate. Considering you're out of a sound card, the 80ohm versions would be more appropriate. However, I've yet to hear a phone that sounds tolerable out of my Audigy, so take that for what it's worth. I think you've been doin' some great readin'/postin' and will be happy no matter what you decide kikko, if I may call you that? Good luck!!

 

[kikkomaso]

Thanks Jodiuh, I think I'm going to stop by Guitar Center and buy the DT770-80 and worst comes to worst, I'll have to return them. They have a great return policy so the most I'd lose is fifty cents worth of gas ^^

 

[Distroyed]

Im with Geek on this one, if the bass is too powerful in a game it will ruin the delicate positional audio cues, even if the DT770's do have exceptional cues. Headphones for gaming really require a different set of criteria than the one's used by the "average" audiophile. Wish I had a pair of 250-80's to try for myself and post a review. Someday....

Quote:

Originally posted by Jodiuh I thought about this for a minute and tried changing my creative surround mixer from 2 spk to headphones and am not quite sure what it did. The sound was definitely closer and I believe more accurate because of this. I'm just wondering what the headphone algorithm does? Off to the creative site...oh it's so ugly...

I will say that the headphone setting, while sucking major ass with music, makes games sound 10x better than the standard 2-speaker setting with Audigy drivers. While muddling the bass a little, it does a superb job of crossfading the left and right channels in a way that makes the transition between the two unnoticeable in EAX games, as it should be. Always set it to headphones when playing a game; you'll notice the difference right away. Just be sure to set it back before putting on some music.

 

[bangraman]

Hrm. Lets recap on a few points here.
The reason I recommend a mixer with EQ controls is not just for the output.


It is always best to have a headphone that does more than you need (DT770) rather than something that only does enough (DT250_80). Why?


Want closer staging on the DT770? EQ up the mids on the mixer and tweak down the HF a bit.
Want less boom? EQ down the lows.
It's rather simple. As Geek himself likes to imply frequently, a phone should be considered a part of a system.


Besides all that, for all the arguments about powering DT770/K271, etc properly, it is de rigeur for a mixer to do so. Try it.

 

[luukas]

Quote:

Originally posted by bangraman The reason I recommend a mixer with EQ controls is not just for the output.

Of course, but if a headphone is very dependant on mixer settings, it means that using different sources becomes less simple - always having to take the mixer with you and then adjust setting properly.

Ah well, since Meier-Audio seems to have only the DT250-80 for sale (though I have not asked if the DT250-250 is available), it's no longer an issue. Currently I'm more interested in how the DT660 can compete with the DT770 when it comes to gaming

 

[kikkomaso]

hrrrm would the powerful bass in the 770s make voices sound really boomy and bloated? I use voice chat a lot and I'm not sure if the bass will be an issue.

 

[Jodiuh]

Quote:

Originally posted by kikkomaso hrrrm would the powerful bass in the 770s make voices sound really boomy and bloated? I use voice chat a lot and I'm not sure if the bass will be an issue.

Nope.



Quote:

Originally posted by bangraman Besides all that, for all the arguments about powering DT770/K271, etc properly, it is de rigeur for a mixer to do so. Try it.

I just did. Very, very nice. I'm using sony d25s-->mini to 2 1/4 cable-->line in 3/4-->Beyer 770's. Wow, being able to control the freqs and volume so well makes me

I've only listened to a little trance by oakenfold and pseudo classical by bond on their born album. It drives all my phones to incredibly sick levels. I had been driving my beyers through the klipsch out because of the convenience. I didn't want to drag my amp over to the pc, unplug, replug, etc. 4x a day, so I just conceded with the headphone out. It sucked at first, noise, low end control especially, but I got used to it.

Anyway, I picked it up from woodwind and brasswind in south bend, indiana for $50 bucks. Sorry about the awful gramamar, but I'm in a hurry to pack for vacation, starting a new job, and moving to a new place...phew!! I'll do my best to post gaming thoughts later, but I just wanted to confirm a lot of what the bang man had to say. Thanks bro!!

Edit: Oh yeah! It's ok to leave it on all the time then? There is no off switch

 

[doug zdanivsky]

How about the Beyer 250's with a HeadRoom Little Premium amp? Or the 871's, which are the HeadRoom staff's pick for "best" closed headphone.

I've heard that the Beyer's are more comfortable than the HD-280's..

The AKG 271's?

I have the HD-25's, just ordered them a couple weeks ago.. Going to return them, I think..

They sound good, but are fatiguing. That ear pads rest squarely on my earlobes, creating pressure- points..

And it got hot in there pretty quick... This is particularily irksome.. The hot, sweaty bog in either ear.. Would I be better with a velvet-cushioned muff, rather than the pleather?

How do the 25's compare to those headphones mentioned above, comfort and performance wise to those mentioned above? For those who have demo'd any of them..