[bacteria]

Hi Experts,
I have been reading this forum for a while now and people here seem knowledgeable and nice so here goes.

I'm a college student. I have genuine interest in high end audio (but ofcourse no budget to experience them). Currently I have M-Audio AV40 for my computer and I wish to upgrade them as I would like more lower frequency response.

My situation is specific.
Willing to spend: $1000
Space constrain: high (I have lots of space in my computer room but I am a big fan of getting the most in smaller package (I know big speakers in general sound better but I just want to get as close as possible to get that sound stage)).
I have asked around, people have recommended AudioEngine A5 as an upgrade from M-Audio AV40.
I would "prefer" to get by without getting separate amplifier as I like to keep the space usage efficient. Also I'm looking for best bang for the buck. I don't think floor standing speakers are an option ofcourse - They are too big and I'm little to bring them by myself.
If there is a speakers that cost x amount of money and performs as good as speakers costing 10x then I would like to know.

What are my options in upgrading from M-Audio AV40 (I do like them - just bass is lacking). Also I prefer Sound Quality of SPL.

I listen to mostly songs (Rock, Some rap not much and techno). I also play first person shooter a lot and watch action movies. Just so you know what I will be using them for.

Any advice for my very specific requirements? I want to find upgrade to AV40 that best suits my "needs" and "budget" and "space constrain"
Thanks - I look forward to everyone's response. If I make a purchase, I wouldn't mind giving you guys some screenshots of what I bought and posting a youtube video if you guys want some excursion.

 

[bacteria]

Oh and what is a DAC? is that something I need that will have significant impact on sound quality?

 

[fenixdown110]

DAC = Digital to Analog Converter.

 

[nautilus1982]

Are you connecting the AV40 directly to the headphone port of your desktop/laptop, or do you already have a good soundcard with RCA output?

For games and movies, you should seriously consider a 2.1 setup. But sticking to 2.0, you can get a pair of expensive active studio monitors, e.g., Genelec 8030A or Adams A7, a good DAC (Musiland Monitor 02 US comes to mind) and interconnect cables. However, some would argue that studio monitor, as its name suggests, is really for professional use and is nowhere close to the enjoyment that traditional Hi-Fi brings you, which leads us to the USB DAC -> amplifier -> passive speakers route. There are actually quite a few compact speakers and amps out there and they don't necessarily take more space than a trunky active monitors.

For the record, I have similar budgets and started with Creative T20. Initially I considered getting an M-Audio monitor, but an audiophile friend gave me an audition of his system and convinced me to spent $800 dollars on ebay on a pair of Dali Royal Menuet II speakers ($1500 new), a Cyrus III amplifier ($800 new) and some quality cables. The improvement was just magnificant! I can't wait to hear how beautifully it will sound when I finally upgrade the DAC.

 

[bacteria]

Quote:

For the record, I have similar budgets and started with Creative T20. Initially I considered getting an M-Audio monitor, but an audiophile friend gave me an audition of his system and convinced me to spent $800 dollars on ebay on a pair of Dali Royal Menuet II speakers ($1500 new), a Cyrus III amplifier ($800 new) and some quality cables. The improvement was just magnificant!

Thanks for your response. I had Creative T20 and infront of M-Audio AV40, they are ****. And even calling them **** is an understatement. They are probably worse than ****.

So you never really heard M-Audio I assume? Since you never bought them. Maybe M-Audio AV40 sound very close to your $2300 setup?

Now the question I raise here is how close are AudioEngine A5 to those expensive $1500 system you spoke about?

Another thing - after I got my bill - I can only spend max $500. And that must include everything (whether just active speakers or passive speakers with an amp).

Please help me out - I need opinion of people who used AudioEngine A5 and also own fairly expensive system - how do they compare? Just for my knowledge. My budget is limited to $500. What can I do with $500 to get better sound than M-Audio AV40?

 

[lh0628]

I had a pair of AV-40s and Rokit RP5 G2s side by side for a few days for audition.

The AV-40s sounded pretty good to me, bare in mind I don't have too much experience with audio stuff. But after listening to the KRKs, they sounded more open, better clarity, better staging, just overall better sounding to me. Though the AV-40s seem to have more bass than the KRKs, maybe that's because the AV-40s are not flat at the bottom end.

I also hooked up my receiver to the SPDIF on my sound card, and fed the pre-outs to the KRKs, and it sounded even better I'd say.

Anyways, if I were you and have $500 to spend, I'd find a pair of Rokit RP6s, or the RP5s and a sub.

Hope this helps.

 

[Duperman]

The first thing I'd do is buy a discrete sound card and re-download/rip lossless files if you haven't done that yet.

I use the av40s bigger brothers, the bx5a deluxe, and I like them a lot but they're very soft on bass and harsh on trebles, I had to eq them. If you don't want audioengine a5s then other similar stuff in your price range I think are krk rokit g2, mackie mr5, and swan m200mk2 are all popular choices. But I've seen lots of praise for a5s.

 

[bacteria]

Thanks for response. I'm still not getting out what I need from you guys. Are audioengine A5 worth while upgrade from AV40 to justify their cost?

I like to compare decent quality speakers to world class speakers that cost way too much. Like B&W, Paradigm, Focal Utopia, Wilson Audio or heck even Kharma.

I'm not talking about SPL here - because obviously those $100,000 speakers use array of big woofers but I'm only talking about SQ. Am I missing anything by not being filthy rich to afford one of those $200,000 setup?

Again all in terms of SQ not SPL.

How do A5 compare to AV40? are they better? How do they compare to Paradigm or B&W $10,000 speakers with dedicated amp?

Those are the questions I'm interested in finding out.

 

[nautilus1982]

No, I haven't heard the M-Audio, however I did audition the Swan M200MKII ($250). It is unlikely that AV40 could outperform it. In fact AV40 is more often compared to its little sibling the 1080MKII. While M200MKII is a big step up from T20, it is no where close to the detailed, warm and involving sound of my Dali. Difficult to quantify the difference, but since I bought my gears second hand ($800 all together) I couldn't be more happier with my investment. So yes, I'm pretty sure my setup will easily trash AV40 and make it look like ****

One thing to bear in mind is that no matter how good the speakers are, they are only capable to reproducing the signal you feed them, so the source is equally important. Lossless files are preferable (or very high bitrate MP3/AAC) and you should invest a substantial part of your budget on a soundcard, or better, an external DAC. Cables are also important. For your budget I suggest spending 60% on speakers, 30% on DAC and 10% on cables.

There are so many different types of speakers created for different purposes. Big floorstanders can produce shattering basses but do you have a room big enough to unleash their power? Some of the upmarket brands you mentioned do produce affordable speakers (check out B&W 685!). Whether their top-of-line products is worth the premium is debatable because there is a point beyond which SQ gain becomes increasingly diminished. So don't expect $100,000 speakers to perform ten times better than $10,000 ones. For bookshelf speakers, you can get near perfect sound (just a bit shy of the lowest bass due to physical constrains) for about $2,000. Proac Response 1SC and Rogers LS3/5A, to name a few, are among the best. A choice then is usually based on personal taste.

I am sorry I haven't really answered your question, but I tend to think that a pair of decent active speakers in the $300-400 range plus a dedicated DAC is worth every penny, you will hear a noticable improvement, even though it's not quite Hi-Fi yet. Based on the reviews I have read, Both the A5 and Swan's M200MKIII (-$350?, not MKII) are very good. And as people pointed out, there are some other contenders as well.

 

[bacteria]

Thanks nautilus1982. Ok so I need everyone's help for sure.

Quote:

so the source is equally important. Lossless files are preferable (or very high bitrate MP3/AAC)

I have started getting FLACs now.

Quote:

and you should invest a substantial part of your budget on a soundcard, or better, an external DAC. Cables are also important. For your budget I suggest spending 60% on speakers, 30% on DAC and 10% on cables.

0.6 x 500 = 300 (what speakers can I get that are better than AV40? I guess AudioEngine A5 will fit?)

0.3 x 500 = 150.
I heard some high quality sound cards have built-in DAC that is very capable. I have no idea what sound card to get. Can you help?

0.1 x 500 = 50.

How about the cables that come with say Audioengine. How about monster cables? They are beyond my reach but do they make a big difference?

Quote:

Big floorstanders can produce shattering basses but do you have a room big enough to unleash their power?

I do but I prefer big performance in smallest package possible. I might consider floor standing speakers if and only if there is no smaller/bookshelf speaker that comes anywhere near the bass response of bigger speakers. It seems that is not that case since you mentioned some that sound more like floor standing speakers.

Quote:

For bookshelf speakers, you can get near perfect sound (just a bit shy of the lowest bass due to physical constrains) for about $2,000. Proac Response 1SC and Rogers LS3/5A, to name a few, are among the best.

How are Proac Response 1SC compared to Audioengine A5? Am I losing a LOT of bass and SQ by going with A5s over Response 1SC? Just curious.

Quote:

I am sorry I haven't really answered your question

I think you have been of great help. I just need more help from you as I mentioned above. Simply put - I'm a poor man trying to have audiophile hi-fi setup. So I just need to plan it out and spend my $$$ carefully - and you can help me with that.

 

[Junliang]

bumps, somewhat in the same situation as OP.
 
So what speakers did you go for OP ?

 

[JRG1990]

Mackie MR-8 , if you want studio moniters to listen to music on, the Mackie's are more like hi-fi speakers than moniters they have a boasted low-end and there sound is slightly more coloured than most moniters it makes them more enjoyable to listen to though and they don't sound bright or harsh like most moniters, they will have 10x the amount of bass than the av-40.

 

[thuantran]

Quote:

Mackie MR-8 , if you want studio moniters to listen to music on, the Mackie's are more like hi-fi speakers than moniters they have a boasted low-end and there sound is slightly more coloured than most moniters it makes them more enjoyable to listen to though and they don't sound bright or harsh like most moniters, they will have 10x the amount of bass than the av-40.

Funny that this is why I dropped the MR-5 instantly when I bought the pair of Yamaha I'm using. I just like my music to be clear and if I go with MR-5 I rather continue using the Creative T-20. The improvement I want just isn't enough there. But I guess to each their own. BTW the testing environment was a small studio they had at the shop, it's a treated room with all the whistles of a typical studio.