[visualguy]

grokit,
 
People may build and sell high-wattage headphones amps because of commercial reasons. It doesn't mean that the high power is needed or used. It's the same as selling fancy cables - no benefit, but no harm either. If there are willing buyers, there will be sellers to satisfy them regardless of whether the product is needed or not (and it doesn't even mean that the seller believes that the product is needed.)
 
By the way, I also have a PhD in engineering, but not electrical. However, I have taken electrical engineering classes... Actually, anyone who studied the electrical power equation even in high school can tell you that what you're saying about high wattage for the HE-6 doesn't make sense. See, voltage is the square root of the product of power (watts) and resistance (ohms). This means that if your resistance is fixed (50 ohms), voltage will grow quite fast as you increase power.  Even at just 2W, you will get 10V which will produce a volume of 116.5dB on the HE-6 based on its sensitivity. This is already insanely loud even for peaks. High-wattage amps will work, but you will be utilizing them at a small fraction of their power.
 
If you aren't convinced by the simple laws of electricity, maybe the only thing would be to put a power meter between your headphones and the amp which will show you that you never exceed 1W... Would you be convinced then?
 
I'm already convinced that the HE-6 complies with the good old laws of electricity. If it didn't, someone would win the Nobel prize for building a device that disproves some basic laws of physics. Other than that, I listened to the HE-6 on 1W amps (DAC1, m903) as well as an 11W amp (Beta 22), and the 1W amps drove them just as well as the 11W amp.
 
This is my last post on the high-wattage topic. I can't make it any clearer than this.
 

 

[InnerSpace]

Quote:

If you aren't convinced by the simple laws of electricity, maybe the only thing would be to put a power meter between your headphones and the amp which will show you that you never exceed 1W... Would you be convinced then?
 
 

Have you tried this?  I think someone should.  I believe both physics and my hearing, which arithmetically are incompatible ... unless the HE-6's specs are wrong.  My guess is they are.  I think sensitivity is way, way below the quoted figure.  It's the only way to square the circle.
 

 

[El_Doug]

no one mentioned anything of the sort, so no worries  
 
Quote:

This is just a reminder to not let the conversations stray too far into the religion of to DBT or no to DBT, etc.  Let's focus on impressions of the headphones mentioned in the title of this thread, and maybe the other associated equipment that synergizes nicely.  
 
TIA!

 

 

[kwkarth]

 
C'mmon people, what's with all this misinformation on the K1000s?  They are rated for 1 watt per channel @ 120 ohms.  That's just under 100mA of current.  That means it would take a typical amp rated capable of delivering 15WPC into an 8Ω load.  The SAC K1000 amp, which was designed specifically for the AKG K1000 headphones puts out 1.2 watts into 120 ohms.
 
With that said, even though I don't have mine yet, I'll bet that the Lry will enable both the K1000 and the HE-6 to sound more full than most people have heard them before.  Why?  Because when the amp is called upon to produce power equalling rated output levels needed for either of these cans it's capable of delivering said power easily with no strain, no dynamic compression.

 

[grokit]

 
Quote:

I believe both physics and my hearing, which arithmetically are incompatible ... unless the HE-6's specs are wrong.  My guess is they are.  I think sensitivity is way, way below the quoted figure.  It's the only way to square the circle.

 
I agree that the published specs of at least one of these headphones could be wrong. I was postulating that it takes more energy in the form of current for an ortho to maintain the discipline of a flat impedance response across the entire FS but what do I know, I do not have advanced training in this.
 
I do find it interesting to this conversation that the LCD-2, which is also rated at 50 ohms, likes high impedance outputs over low impedance outputs, according to consensus on the LCD-2 and Woo threads. My ears agree out of the WA22.
 
All I know for sure is what I hear, and that is the same relative volume level with the same setup having the HE-6 and K1000 side by side to a/b out of a 45 wpc speaker amp.
 
It could even have something to do with the way sound on the two headphones is presented. The K1000 makes other open headphones sound closed in comparison, but as I mentioned the HE-6 seems to ask for even more volume than the K1000 sometimes but it's very close overall.
 
Doesn't anyone else have both the HE-6 and the K1000 to confirm, or am I the only one?
 
 
Quote:

C'mmon people, what's with all this misinformation on the K1000s?  They are rated for 1 watt per channel @ 120 ohms.  That's just under 100mA of current.  That means it would take a typical amp rated capable of delivering 15WPC into an 8Ω load.  The SAC K1000 amp, which was designed specifically for the AKG K1000 headphones puts out 1.2 watts into 120 ohms.

That explains quite clearly why AKG would pack a speaker tap extension cable with the K1000, because most headphone amps don't deliver that kind of power. Also that my 45 wpc into 8 ohms speaker amp is the equivalent of 3 watts into 120 ohms(?), which is what I am pushing into the K1000 and HE-6. Both headphones seem to appreciate it to the same degree.

 

[grokit]

To cross-quote for relevance from a recent post in the HE-6 thread:

Quote:

I agree 100%, from the K1K output of the Woo WA5 I find my volume settings are almost exactly the same as when running the K-1000s.

 

So this leads one to conclude that ideally the HE-6's need about 6-8 watts of quality power to really make them sing.

 

Cheers!

 

[SP Wild]

I'm trying to find a 1 watt integrated because thanks to this thread, I realised I only needed one watt, because my speakers show 90 db for 1 watt, and 90 decibels is plenty loud for me, I might go for 2 watts just in case, for dynamic peaks, what do you guys think?  Excellent facts being presented in this thread.
 
1khz guys, 1 khz.

 

[Driftwood]

the Schiit Lyr should be considered the minimum amplification standard for best HE-6/K1000 performance.

I don't really have any specific comments about the power requirements of the HE-6, but I find this comment hillarious. Schiit releases an amplifier they advertise as being overkill and make disclaimers about how they are not responsible if you blow up your headphones, and now it has become "the minimum amplification standard?" I am sure that HE-6 sounds great driven by the Lyr, and maybe better than other amps tested by visualguy, but I'm also pretty sure that it has nothing at all to do with the fact that the Lyr is 6 watts.

 

[Driftwood]

I'm trying to find a 1 watt integrated because thanks to this thread, I realised I only needed one watt, because my speakers show 90 db for 1 watt, and 90 decibels is plenty loud for me, I might go for 2 watts just in case, for dynamic peaks, what do you guys think?  Excellent facts being presented in this thread.
 
1khz guys, 1 khz.

You are on the right track, but you need to take into account the differences between average and peak listening level. Now, I realize that a lot of music these days is very compressed and doesn't have a lot of dynamic range, but you probably want to have the ability to do at least a 14db dynamic range without compression or clipping. If your speakers have a sensitivity of 90 db with 1 watt at 1 meter, this means in order for 14 db peaks over the average listening level to be reproduced accurately, you would need to be listening at an average level of no more than 76 db. Also, you would need to be exactly 1 meter away from your speakers, which is probably not realistic. So, if you plan on listening to music at an average of around 70db, you'll probably be fine with 1 watt. For every 3 db louder than that, you'll need to double your power requirements -- so for an average listening level of around 85 db, you'll need around 32 watts.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

I'm trying to find a 1 watt integrated because thanks to this thread, I realised I only needed one watt, because my speakers show 90 db for 1 watt, and 90 decibels is plenty loud for me, I might go for 2 watts just in case, for dynamic peaks, what do you guys think?  Excellent facts being presented in this thread.
 
1khz guys, 1 khz.

Erm,
You're forgetting something...  A resistance to learning....known as impedance.....

 
 

 

[visualguy]

 
Quote:

1khz guys, 1 khz.

The HE-6 has a flat impedance of 50 ohms. See the graph that was posted earlier in this thread. The same power is needed to produce the same volume at all frequencies.
 

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

The HE-6 has a flat impedance of 50 ohms. See the graph that was posted earlier in this thread. The same power is needed to produce the same volume at all frequencies.

And?
 
 

 

[Gradofan2]

 
Quote:

@gradofan2
About good home amps : The following is another side of the coin.
 
Yesterday I lent a friend my O2MKI.He has such a transformer too(the same one that I have),but his amp is a vintage class A Yammi.
He just told me,O2MKI are" just a little bit" better than his Sr 202. So this seems like maybe the WEE+Homeamp is not the absolute answer for everyone too .  So like we all know, it doesn't depend much on the power the amp provides,but it's all about the amp quality.(in case of home amps,cuz they sure have enough power)
 
 
by the way buying the 717 ,727 or WEE or even KGSS to try is not a bad idea,if you don't like it ,just sell it,you will not lost much money.
 
 

So... I finally found time to "spend a little" of it with the O2 MKII's, etc. as mentioned here:  http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/223263/the-stax-thread-new/15150#post_7340938
 
So... how much of an improvement can these other amps make in the 02 MKII's?   As noted, it would have to be "a lot" for me to justify their prices (i.e.  GES - maxed, KGSS, etc.).
 
 

 

[grokit]

 
Quote:

Quote:

the Schiit Lyr should be considered the minimum amplification standard for best HE-6/K1000 performance.

I don't really have any specific comments about the power requirements of the HE-6, but I find this comment hillarious. Schiit releases an amplifier they advertise as being overkill and make disclaimers about how they are not responsible if you blow up your headphones, and now it has become "the minimum amplification standard?" I am sure that HE-6 sounds great driven by the Lyr, and maybe better than other amps tested by visualguy, but I'm also pretty sure that it has nothing at all to do with the fact that the Lyr is 6 watts.

For best performance, that's the key word here. As many have pointed out you can get satisfactory volume levels with a 2-watt headphone amp but they can take much more than that and almost everyone that has tried it for themselves has reported that the HE-6's performance will improve with additional power. The ones that keep citing formulas and specifications most vocally are usually the same ones that haven't listened to the HE-6 out of a higher powered amp for themselves.
 
Skylab has reported positive results with a 4 watt headphone amp and evidently my 45 wpc/8 ohm speaker amp computes to only 3 watts into 120 ohms, what does that mean, 5 watts or so into 50 ohms? So maybe that should be the minimum but 2 watts leaves a lot top be desired withe these headphones. I suppose the Schiit is delivering 5 watts or so into 50 ohms if it's rated at 6 watts into 32 ohms? That makes my speaker amp roughly equivalent to the Lyr unless my figures are off, which they may well be.
 
All you have to do is read through the HE-6 thread(s), there are a lot of converts there that report the same results when they decide to give the it "too much" power, it's not just me. I just quoted the most recent post regarding it since he also had a K1000 for comparison.
 
If you've made your calculations and have already decided that the HE-6 won't sound better with more power then there may be placebo at work when you finally try it for yourself. But then again everyone hears differently for a variety of valid reasons besides placebo.
 
In my case I really doubt that there was any placebo at play as I sincerely wanted to drive the HE-6 off my WA22 but its 2 watts of power just wasn't enough, so I found a more powerful amplifier that corrected the problems I heard. I wish my WA22 was up to the task like it is with the LCD-2 but it clearly isn't, it barely had enough power to drive the HE-5.

 

[miku39]

I'm still green in DIY but,
is it possible that higher rated power amplifiers perform better than lower rated one on the same load? Maybe less distortion?