[manueljenkin]

There are junk cables, that is true. But if you just use the cable that comes with the device or just an non no-brand cable, you will never have any problems. I highly doubt that there is any need to upgrade the cable at all.

Stutter is what can happen with packet loss and even though it is possible, i never ever experienced that ever in my life with an OEM cable ever.

Even with 24bit/92KHz the bit rate is around 4000kbit/s at best which is roughly 0,5mbyte/s.

An average USB3 cable can transport way more than 100mbyte/s without packet loss.

The 100mbps size is true only for a specific protocol of transfer. File transfer protocol and audio transfer protocol are not the same. The frame size, the polling, are all different. Audio protocol is super timing constrained, and since usb generally doens't use DMA, all data will be routed through the CPU. And since the CPU has speculative execution and things like that it has jitter, polling inconsistencies and may or may not respond in time for the dac to fill up the buffer. Post this we have cable aberrations, and since data is differential we also can have issues with glitching in case the two lines are not aligned well enough in phase.

A small packet loss, as I said is quite easily masked without feeling as a pop or click. Only when you reduce the packet loss do you find that it's been lost in the other gear and you notice resolution improvements.

 

[Vamp898]

> The 100mbps size is true only for a specific protocol of transfer.

I just wanted to state an example that the cable is most likely not the reason for packet loss. An proper USB3.1 connection can handle up to 2,5gbyte/s without packet loss. Of course not all protocols can handle that speed but if you dont have packet loss at 2,5gbyte (no matter the protocol), it is very unlikely, that it will start to drop packages at 0,0005gbyte/s.

> The frame size, the polling, are all different.

This has no influence on the capability of the cable to transport information without packet loss

> Audio protocol is super timing constrained

Still doesn't have any influence on the cable and is a vague statement, unrelated to the topic and goes into an completely other direction. What exactly is timing constrained and what audio protocols are we talking about?

So as long we dont talk about recording with multi-track recoders on RT Systems, i don't see how audio playback is super timing constrained but i am not very sure what exactly you're pointing at here at all. You mean like getting the packages in time from the player to the Sound Card?

That is not an issue.

> and since usb generally doens't use DMA

Wrong. USB Controllers can use DMA. I don't know if its possible on Windows, but it is on Linux and it is getting used.

> all data will be routed through the CPU

You mean Memory Access Requests are routed through the CPU i guess. Without DMA, thats the case, yes, but thats not an issue.

> CPU has speculative execution and things like that it has jitter, polling inconsistencies and may or may not respond in time for the dac to fill up the buffer

Just out of curiousity i checked how much my CPU can handle while still playing audio without packet loss.

I let the CPU generate zeroes as fast as possible and checked how fast it can do that, without having any influence on the audio playing

Even when the CPU generates zeroes at 100% CPU usage with way more than 10GByte/s, the audio still runs perfect without a single packet got lost.

DMA or not, there is absolutely no reason to be afraid of that the CPU can't handle the requirements for audio playback.

Everything we are talking about here is high theoretically and doesn't have any influence on the real world experience of listening to audio. And if the best laser audio measuring system in the world says "The quality is perfect", it is perfect, simple as that.

I know that most audiophile trust and believe into voodoo, but i dont.

The least thing to worry about is, if the OEM USB Cable is good enough, especially when an crappy bad operating system is used to play the audio that ass things up, no matter what cable you use.

https://preview.redd.it/p3tm8vdo17r...bp&s=733d3fbac32e4cb7d882cb6b13ea58f00f87da2e

 

[ok computer]

Cables are just something you have to mess with and come to your own conclusion on. I have some morrow audio cables for that I use for interconnects and usb. I think they make a difference because I've tested them as best I can in MY system over long periods of time. My only explanation for why digital cables matter is it probably has something to do with jitter rather than bits being flipped but idk. If you don't hear a difference I'm not going to argue with you on that.

After messing with minority clean some more I've stopped using it. I found it did more harm than good, again for my system. I can see why some people might like it, but for me it just made things too bright which i don't need.

Also yeah, I've used wtfplayer a good deal as well. Sounds very good but like winyl has no oversampling option. The developer has it on his to do list to add SOX resampling but there's no telling when/if that will actually happen. Messing around more with the filters in HQ player I've found a combination that I really like and I've been happy just listening to music and not tweaking. The true holy grail of this hobby.

 

[moriez]

I know that most audiophile trust and believe into voodoo, but i dont.

I think the quoted makes up the majority of the reason for the division between the yes/no camps: some are open to the possibility of differences and some are not.
Those who are open are susceptible to hearing things that aren't there. Being closed influences perception the same.

Sorry manuel for the risky ot. It's more a note to self really.

 

[manueljenkin]

I think you are making assumptions that I donot use eq. Wrong! I do. I write codes in matlab to design filters to do eq and I have also used hqplayer with its eq convolver function. I use pretty much any tool available at my disposal.

On part of usb cable differences. The differences are things I have personally done experiments to validate in terms of buffer underruns for sure. It's not something that can be replicated by eq, especially since it's an aberration inherent to the cable interface interaction that's been removed. You need to be clean to simulate a worse signal. It's not yet measured the full chain I agree, but noise levels, slew rates, characteristic impedance, reflections in usb cables (or any line transmitting signals) are quite well measured and they do show deviations. Buffer underruns issues are quite well measured and there are latency checkers which make the correlation job easier.

For music player differences, the full chain delta has been measured and I had posted it is earlier. The measurement has been done independently under multiple setups under multiple test tones and is definitely repeatable if your probe is up to snuff.

Regarding expectation bias. I paid 100$ for a replacement cable for my hd800, 40$ for a replacement cable for my srh1540 and found no discernible difference. I bought a couple of 40$ usb cables for my dac (all within recommend spec) and saw differences in sound. I changed music player softwares (free) and saw changes in sound (also measurable). I don't see any bias here. If I spot a change I say it, if I don't I say I don't. People who have tried the things do experience the same, without input from me. There are independent observations that councide. And when I see a change I try to do experiments to see if it's a proxy for something else and it wasn't.

 

[leeperry]

you should try WASAPI in uLilith

 

[manueljenkin]

you should try WASAPI in uLilith

Can I have a download link please? I'm unable to find.

 

[ksb643]

https://codecpack.co/download/Lilith-Player-English.html

 

[ScareDe2]

I agree Foobar is not very good for fidelity. Even Winamp does a better job. Here is my current top music players downloadable for free and the first one does a spectacular job!

1. JetAudio
2. Winamp/Zoom player
3. MHC player
And then you have many including Foobar indeed. Not going to bother at this point.

Go at oldversion.com and download the popular version of JetAudio. Give me some feedback what you think. By the way I have asio/wasapi uninstalled.

 

[manueljenkin]

I agree Foobar is not very good for fidelity. Even Winamp does a better job. Here is my current top music players downloadable for free and the first one does a spectacular job!

1. JetAudio
2. Winamp/Zoom player
3. MHC player
And then you have many including Foobar indeed. Not going to bother at this point.

Go at oldversion.com and download the popular version of JetAudio. Give me some feedback what you think. By the way I have asio/wasapi uninstalled.

Hey thanks. I will give them a try (need to get my laptop repaired first though). Any specific reason why you don't use asio/wasapi. Do you use any other protocol? Direct sound has forced filters that limit fidelity.

 

[ScareDe2]

Hey thanks. I will give them a try (need to get my laptop repaired first though). Any specific reason why you don't use asio/wasapi. Do you use any other protocol? Direct sound has forced filters that limit fidelity.

When I install asio4all on my computer I don't like what it does to my sound. I used to have it installed long ago and thought that it improved the clarity slightly, now I don't like it. Is it synergy, compatibility or subjectivity, I don't know. I use different material than I used too. Today I have a beloved pair of horizontal Yamaha NS10 studio monitor in a treated room (I build my own sound diffusers for cheap), I sold my Schiit Bifrost multibit and kept the little modi, and I have an almighty Sony receiver from 90's the Str 1011 that I think has great synergy with the Yamaha's.

JetAudio works best for me now. I can also use youtube dl, download video and jetaudio reads it as well. If you want to install youtube dl please watch this video, it's a powerful and simple tool, you can download any video from any site with it.

 

[castleofargh]

asio4all as far as I know is not actually asio. Your DAC comes with its own asio driver(or it doesn't).

 

[ScareDe2]

And all asio drivers are not the same. I have to say that since I have started to trust my own ears I lost interest in what is good what is not according to sale speech or audio science (AKA the rabbit hole of hell).

Only way is to try and discard what doesn't work for you. I am going back to the only sound I have ever truthfully enjoy : good old speakers, good old receiver, good old CD player with a 25 years old DAC inside. And boom. Sonic nirvana. Ultra summit high-five. https://www.americanradiohistory.co...tereo/90s/Stereo-Review-1993-Buyers-Guide.pdf

But that being said, JetAudio really sounds more transparent. Seems like a serious audio player.

 

[Fabithierry]

Try "Russian Album Player" or "PlayPCMWin"

 

[manueljenkin]

Try "Russian Album Player" or "PlayPCMWin"

Thank you. I've tried Album player. It is good but I preferred winyl over it. Kind of smooth sounding I would say, the album player.

I'll try playpcmwin soon.