[Konig]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY /img/forum/go_quote.gif The problem with this argument is that the assets involved in the current crisis are generally not "assets" in the classic sense. It's not mortgages that are causing the largest losses... it's CDOs (and other MBS based on those mortgages, plus credit swaps). Unlike a mortgage over property, which is likely to recover a significant portion of its value, the lower tranches of a CDO are completely worthless once a certain number of foreclosure losses have occurred. There is no prospect for recovery of much of these assets. I wouldn't have as much of a problem if the government were buying tangible assets, as they did during the Great Depression and during S&L. But spending government money to save the financial industry from CDOs, derivatives, and swaps? The taxpayer is going to bleed for this.

I guess USD holders may bleed together too eventually...
Does the treasury have $500bil to spend in the first place?

 

[sound and music]

My letter published in Today's International Herald Tribune:


Saturday, September 20, 2008

American socialism

The bailouts of Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and now of AIG ("U.S. takes radical steps to save AIG," Sept. 18) show that nationalization and state intervention are no longer dirty words in the United States.

Ironically, these multibillion-dollar bailouts are being carried out by an administration that preaches the virtues of the free market and private enterprise to the rest of the world.

For decades, Washington has been cautioning the world against injecting public money into the banking system while demanding greater deregulation and privatization of the financial sector. When India and China recapitalized their banking systems some years ago, they were severely criticized by the United States. Do as the United States says, not as it does.

Who says that socialism is dead? It is alive and kicking in America. But this socialism nationalizes losses and privatizes profits.

Kavaljit Singh Delhi, India

 

[RYCeT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig /img/forum/go_quote.gif next govt to build a budget surplus? Are they selling F-22s to China and Middle East soon?

Budget surplus doesn't meant to sell things to other countries. US GOP is easy to build a budget surplus if they want to, cut the military budget and make them as high as other nations, such as: UK, France, Canada

Voila, there'll be more money to save and spend on other things. The problem is this country loved so much to spend big on their military budget.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY /img/forum/go_quote.gif The problem with this argument is that the assets involved in the current crisis are generally not "assets" in the classic sense. It's not mortgages that are causing the largest losses... it's CDOs (and other MBS based on those mortgages, plus credit swaps). Unlike a mortgage over property, which is likely to recover a significant portion of its value, the lower tranches of a CDO are completely worthless once a certain number of foreclosure losses have occurred. There is no prospect for recovery of much of these assets. I wouldn't have as much of a problem if the government were buying tangible assets, as they did during the Great Depression and during S&L. But spending government money to save the financial industry from CDOs, derivatives, and swaps? The taxpayer is going to bleed for this.

I prefer the government asked the same thing when they provide loan to AIG which getting some of these financial institution's shares to offset their bad loans. At least, GOP will have something to sell when the economy are getting better.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sound and music /img/forum/go_quote.gif My letter published in Today's International Herald Tribune: Saturday, September 20, 2008 American socialism The bailouts of Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and now of AIG ("U.S. takes radical steps to save AIG," Sept. 18) show that nationalization and state intervention are no longer dirty words in the United States. Ironically, these multibillion-dollar bailouts are being carried out by an administration that preaches the virtues of the free market and private enterprise to the rest of the world. For decades, Washington has been cautioning the world against injecting public money into the banking system while demanding greater deregulation and privatization of the financial sector. When India and China recapitalized their banking systems some years ago, they were severely criticized by the United States. Do as the United States says, not as it does. Who says that socialism is dead? It is alive and kicking in America. But this socialism nationalizes losses and privatizes profits. Kavaljit Singh Delhi, India

Beautifully said.

 

[LFF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sound and music /img/forum/go_quote.gif My letter published in Today's International Herald Tribune: Saturday, September 20, 2008 American socialism The bailouts of Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and now of AIG ("U.S. takes radical steps to save AIG," Sept. 18) show that nationalization and state intervention are no longer dirty words in the United States. Ironically, these multibillion-dollar bailouts are being carried out by an administration that preaches the virtues of the free market and private enterprise to the rest of the world. For decades, Washington has been cautioning the world against injecting public money into the banking system while demanding greater deregulation and privatization of the financial sector. When India and China recapitalized their banking systems some years ago, they were severely criticized by the United States. Do as the United States says, not as it does. Who says that socialism is dead? It is alive and kicking in America. But this socialism nationalizes losses and privatizes profits. Kavaljit Singh Delhi, India

Bravo!

 

[Audio-Omega]

FDIC: Failed Bank List

 

[pageman99]

Hmm...

All very interesting. But IMHO, it'll all wash out, but at an ugly price.

INFLATION.

That's assuming the gov't is afraid of a depression and goes the bail out route.

Of course inflation means cash is not a good thing to hold. And the older folks hard earned savings will be devalued and they'll have to continue to work to make ends meet.

Or we can let the free traders (the let the banks fail crowd) have their way. Then we'll get a sure DEPRESSION. In that case folks with cash will be king, but at the cost of a lack of liquidity as folks hang on to their cash, making day to day business near impossible as credit for new businesses and expansion disappears.

Sigh...

But me, being a bit of an optimist with a belief in the value of hard work and grinding one's way through difficult times, I actually feel most folk, given the chance, will just show up for work on Monday and plow forward.

And in the end, somehow, there will be food on the table, and headphones for those willing to work for them.

 

[Hi-Finthen]

Glad to see Paulson and the Republican Party are looking after Wall Street first:

Congressman Frank, who has been in phone discussions with Paulson, said the secretary appeared receptive to adding some foreclosure-relief language. The second Democratic proposal — to impose compensation limits on Wall Street executives — is meeting more resistance.

“Hank says it’s a poison pill,” Frank said. “I say I don’t think it’s very patriotic for someone to not give up his golden parachute when we’re trying to save the markets.”

A poison pill? The executives who drove their banks into insolvency won't let the government save their banks if it means they have to give up multi-million dollar golden parachutes? After they've been paying themselves millions a year for the sheer incompetence necessary to bankrupt their companies? Did we step through the mirror and I didn't notice?

I can only read this as Paulson saying that Republicans will stop any bill that reigns in executive compensation in exchange for a bailout. I cannot think of words sufficient to describe my contempt at the greed, selfishness and sheer hubris being displayed by Paulson, Republicans and the bankers who believe they can dictate that not only should Congress hand over 700 billion dollars, but it should do so with no meaningful conditions.

 

[frozenice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-Finthen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Glad to see Paulson and the Republican Party are looking after Wall Street first: “Hank says it’s a poison pill,” Frank said. “I say I don’t think it’s very patriotic for someone to not give up his golden parachute when we’re trying to save the markets.”

Sounds like a game of chicken to me and I hope the Democrats force the Republicans to cave. If the Democrats don't go along with the parachute club the financial system crashes and the Democrats should win big time in the upcoming elections. And isn't that job one for a politician.

 

[Hi-Finthen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by frozenice /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sounds like a game of chicken to me and I hope the Democrats force the Republicans to cave. If the Democrats don't go along with the parachute club the financial system crashes and the Democrats should win big time in the upcoming elections. And isn't that job one for a politician.

You know, I didn't think about it that way, at first... As I said before, I'm only trying to get my head around this one in ALL of it's complexities... And of course to be approved by congress there needs to be some accountability to those of first cause, as well as some negotiation for inclusion of something in this for so-called, mainstreet. IIRC, B.Frank did say this should be settled within some two weeks! There is no need to quickly write a check without terms or negotiation and great forethought before having expended all other possible remedys of which, I'm sure there are many esspecially in terms of the details of the buy points or other ideas which haven't yet been fully explored. Nevermind comming to Congress and in a few days mandating terms based upon "FEARS" pre-emptively; We've seen that movie and its consequenses and costs, based upon alterior motives only making situations worse in fact!

 

[RYCeT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by frozenice /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sounds like a game of chicken to me and I hope the Democrats force the Republicans to cave. If the Democrats don't go along with the parachute club the financial system crashes and the Democrats should win big time in the upcoming elections. And isn't that job one for a politician.

I don't think so, if this solution offered by GOP didn't get approval from congress due to democrat refusal and caused the market to get worse. The Republicans will put the blame on Democrats big time.

 

[ameyer17]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-Finthen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can only read this as Paulson saying that Republicans will stop any bill that reigns in executive compensation in exchange for a bailout. I cannot think of words sufficient to describe my contempt at the greed, selfishness and sheer hubris being displayed by Paulson, Republicans and the bankers who believe they can dictate that not only should Congress hand over 700 billion dollars, but it should do so with no meaningful conditions.

*facepalm*
1929 here we come.

Why can't the idiots in Washington put aside partisan BS to stop impending disaster?

 

[Hi-Finthen]

It should be noted that neither party is solely responsible for whatever neglect led the country to the brink of this financial crisis disaster, IMO , and likewise cooperation by negotiation is how it can and will likely be resolved in terms of getting it right, ie fairly to those who are being represented, all of us and these corporations who lobbyied for their best interest (profits), that has allowed and caused this to happen. Why did the housing bubble happen is the question that needs to be answered. I would submit, political policy is in need of review, so that it doesn't again happen, again and again! Limit lobbyist influance, IMO!

Article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/business/21qanda.html

Of course fingerpointing as in this article, needs to be understood too in terms of the future: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/20/bu...0prexy.html?em

 

[CodeToad]

"That we are overdone with banking institutions which have banished the precious metals and substituted a more fluctuating and unsafe medium, that these have withdrawn capital from useful improvements and employments to nourish idleness, that the wars of the world have swollen our commerce beyond the wholesome limits of exchanging our own productions for our own wants, and that, for the emolument of a small proportion of our society who prefer these demoralizing pursuits to labors useful to the whole, the peace of the whole is endangered and all our present difficulties produced, are evils more easily to be deplored than remedied." --Thomas Jefferson to Abbe Salimankis, 1810

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-Finthen /img/forum/go_quote.gif It should be noted that neither party is solely responsible for whatever neglect led the country to the brink of this financial crisis disaster...

Yes. Yes. 1000 times, yes.

We need to comptletely change the culture of governance in this country.


Oh, and one more thing:

GOD BLESS BARNEY FRANK.

After a lifetime of being dismissed and crapped on by intolerant yahoos, he still speaks truth to power.