[flagpole]

Don't forget to add in the Crazy audiophiles, that buys cables for 5000 USD, stones to put the DAC on for thousands of dollars and speakers for crazy money only to put them in a regular living room with no acoustic treatment (or fake mini acoustic treatment make of gold etc.)

 

[Mauricio]

I've been making the same point here--even if you prefer a colored sound, you're better off with a neutral system as a basis--quite regularly here.  The response that I get is generally that I don't understand that people want or seek a colored sound.  In other words, the response is besides my point.  The response is besides the point.  If you want a colored sound, get an equalizer or a signal processor!  DACs, amps and speakers/headphones make for lousy equalizers.

 

[proton007]

 
Quote:

I've been making the same point here--even if you prefer a colored sound, you're better off with a neutral system as a basis--quite regularly here.  The response that I get is generally that I don't understand that people want or seek a colored sound.  In other words, the response is besides my point.  The response is besides the point.  If you want a colored sound, get an equalizer or a signal processor!  DACs, amps and speakers/headphones make for lousy equalizers.

I agree with you to an extent, but I also feel that the current trend of coloring the sound is the result of a gradual build up of consumer tastes driven by imperfection in reproducing the sound.
I'm not sure I know of any speakers/headphones in my affordable range (as of now) that perfectly flat in their response.
To think about it, why would you want to listen to something the musician did not add in his music? That goes for those wanting bass bass bass.  
But, music genres also vary in terms of the most common frequency region they use, and hence one size does not fit all.
 
The most neutral and perfect scenario I can think of is to have drivers that can adapt to each song individually after performing some signal analysis. And the music be played back in a studio like acoustic environment. But I feel thats not possible/practical.
 

 

[Lunatique]

Quote:

The most neutral and perfect scenario I can think of is to have drivers that can adapt to each song individually after performing some signal analysis. And the music be played back in a studio like acoustic environment. But I feel thats not possible/practical.
 

No need. Just EQ your speakers/room response to be as neutral as possible. That's what the ARC System is for. IK Multimedia's coming out with version 2 of the ARC System soon--it'll be even better. For headphones, it's harder since measuring them ourselves is not nearly as easy as with speakers/room. But if you have reliable measuring data (such as those from Tyll's InnerFidelity), then you can simply EQ your headphone according to the ideal frequency response a headphone should have (flat from 1KHz to 20Hz, then a gentle -10 dB slope from 1KHz to 20KHz). I described in detail how to do it here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/551426/my-eq-curves-for-lcd-2-hd650-m50-and-007mk2
 

 

[proton007]

Excellent idea.
Normally do you use software or hardware eq? Which one do you recommend ?

 

[Lunatique]

Quote:

Excellent idea.
Normally do you use software or hardware eq? Which one do you recommend ?

I'm a computer/software guy. It's just much more flexible and convenient in general to have a system based on the computer/software. I gave my recommendation in that thread already--did you read it?

 

[proton007]

Yes I figured its all software, as in on PC, but still wanted to know your thoughts on the pros and cons. I'm an embedded guy, so for me hardware/software works rather closely and on the chip.

 

[donunus]

I'd like to say that this is such a beautiful article!

 

[DNZGamer]

Well written but I have to disagree completely here... mostly because you've inaccurately used the screen analogy.

TVs are not always better with upgrades:
 
-Everyone I know usually turns 120hz TVs to 60hz because 120hz is too smooth and unnatural.
-Pre HD-console consoles look better on EDTVs because the bleeding effect is a natural aliasing effect better than HDTV upscales.
-Too much aliasing can look bad. 
-People still use effects like grain filters and black and white so even though it is not inherent in the TV, visual fidelity does not always correspond to what you are discussing
-3D is not enjoyable for all
 
There is less room in TVs for interpretation but it is still certainly there.
 
Relating to music, I have been in your "typical consumer" to "low end audiophile range" for years now (bought stuff like Skull Candy headphones, bose headphones, moved onto klipsch and entry level Beyers). I joined Head-fi awhile after buying the v-moda m-80 and began to pick up steam in terms of audio gear.

While it is probably true that you are closer to the true production by getting neutral/accurate phones, I do not believe in any way that this makes music better. Colored sound seems perfectly legitimate in terms of producing enjoyment and I often don't even like the headphones that are considered more neutral. Music is far too subjective to make accurate comparison with visual fidelity, which is much more straight forward. My example for this would be the fact that I personally, have enjoyed new genres of music or music I did not enjoy previously due to certain headphones that are supposedly "colored". I frequently enjoy and use both my bass and treble boost to give an abnormal about of focus towards certain parts of a production.

That I enjoy these "colorations" is a fact and is a reality for many people. I do not understand choosing neutrality over enjoyment as a more educated way to make purchases. I am a fairly new member which is probably why I am going against the grain here. Maybe I will conform to this topic when I move up on your scale ^^'

 

[purrin]

I like neutral equipment with simple bass and treble tone controls. I don't like non-neutral gear because then you are screwed if particular records or genres don't play well with such gear, or if the mastering engineer "colors" the sound (for artistic effect) the same way your gear may happen to be colored. Neutrality is the best guarantee that the widest range of recordings will sound good. And I don't want to futz with EQ every time a new song on my playlist comes up.
 
I also like my TV's calibrated to be neutral in color, accurate in detail (that is no excessive sharpness), and realistic in contrast (where I can see shadow detail.)
 
I don't like TVs looking like this:
 

 
nor headphones sounding like this:
 

 
or this:
 

 

[bigshot]

 
Quote:

I like neutral equipment with bass and treble tone controls.

Amen!

 

[donunus]

 
Quote:

Well written but I have to disagree completely here... mostly because you've inaccurately used the screen analogy.

 
hehehe there are many things that I disagree with in the article myself too but It's a beautiful thing to behold LOL

 

[donunus]

 
Quote:

 I don't like non-neutral gear because then you are screwed if particular records or genres don't play well with such gear, or if the mastering engineer "colors" the sound (for artistic effect) the same way your gear may happen to be colored. Neutrality is the best guarantee that the widest range of recordings will sound good. And I don't want to futz with EQ every time a new song on my playlist comes up.

 
Thats exactly how I see it too. Since nothing is completely neutral though, personal bias in judging which anomalies are more pleasing and musical come into play. Take me for example, I could never really understand how someone can call k701s neutral. I mean the person has either have to have totally different hearing than I do or is probably just being part of the herd that believes in good advertising LOL

 

[DNZGamer]

Tweaking each songs EQ settings is completely impractical and requires a certain amount of motivation to discover to begin with. Enjoying music shouldn't really be a chore... Also, how am I suppose to tweak the EQ settings to make my v-moda sound like UM3x or Grado's? The EQ settings on my iPod are pretty terrible if that was what I was suppose to do. 
 
Also, if every range of headphones could be easily replicated with an EQ setting on my ipod than what would be the point of all these different headphones? Everyone should just focus on things like improving the soundstage, imaging and precise details? Obviously there are a lot of things that come into play when choosing a headphone and I think "sounding neutral" places absolutely nowhere on the list unless you LIKE neutral or are an audio engineer. Some people just love lots of bass. Some people just like lots of treble. Some people hate harsh highs and get fatigued easily. Arbitrarily saying that people who like bright/dark headphones will suffer when they listen to treble heavy/light music is an extremely black and white view of the issue that has almost no practical value.
 
I know the logic behind this idea but I really don't see this as practical at all considering the nature of headphones and sound. Can you turn a K701 into a Grado SR325i sound or an HD650 sound except with a huge headstage just from EQ settings? I feel like this is what newbies would take away from the people posting in this topic more than anything else in which case, I find this topic is promoting gross misinformation in the guise of enlightenment.

 

[donunus]

When talking about eq turning one headphone into another, we need something of at least 32 bands to even come close to achieving this. But still, even if one's intent was to EQ a K701 to sound like a Grado 325i with an advanced equalizer, he would still be ending up with a headphone that sounds less similar to the 325i than even an sr60 LOL. I mean the transient signature, driver distance, etc... plays a role that EQ can only approximate. An sr60 using bowl pads although less refined than the 325i will always sound more like the latter than an EQ'd k701 IMO. With speakers it is a little different because we can change the room orientation, placement, etc... so eq may be able to make two pairs sound closer to each other than two pairs of headphones from different manufacturers. Still, it is impossible to make even speakers sound exactly identical to each other too unless all the dimensions and distances between drivers are the same. Analog EQ just cannot change the difference in time the sound gets to one's ears when comparing a front firing dome tweeter vs a dipole ribbon for example.