[bagwell359]

I am in no way affiliated with MD, but I do have an opinion...

At what point is a collaboration product so close to (or otherwise competes with) what the partner already sells that this out and out takes higher profit margin sales away?

In the end the real magic/trick of the MD x collaborations is that they add extra sales at lower price and cost points without significantly taking sales from mainline products. Thus they ressurect good but older designs (e.g. Ether CX, the Koss estats) or "dumb down" cosmetic features and/or functionality just a bit (these?), or both, to reduce the competition with the partner products. It isn't just about saving $16... It is about adding ***additional*** sales and profit for MD and the partner. Oh, and it ain't bad marketing for the rest of the partner's product line.

In return those of us who are not in the market for the higher priced offerings still get very good deals on still very good technology, and give up a few things for the reduced price. And those interested in, and able to afford, the top of the line won't likely be tempted by these. Win-win for everyone.

Just don't ask for those collaboration products to resemble too closely the higher cost models. Then the collaboration biz model breaks.

Just my opinion.

The HFM 4XX has a better headband than any HFM model, and it sounds fine. Senn has the 58X, 6** very similar to the stock models, and all 3 are still active products (although the 650 might get fazed out I understand).

The HFM is a special case IMO as the headbands have been hammered by customers. I don't care that they just include one cable. I'm sure the box is a box with nothing special in it. The pads look stock which is important since finding that shape after market isn't very likely (yet).

I'm not per say against what you are saying, but, that headband is an eyesore, and it doesn't look very comfortable in the stock pics, if it is actually uncomfortable or doesn't keep the cups properly on ones head - than it is indeed a choice of money saved over actual function. If that's so (and obviously I don't know) it's not good. I predict that the reviewers will pick at them, and that it will be a negative factor in buyers choice in many cases.

 

[bagwell359]

Even with $600 pricepoint, there is already a lot of profit margin to be made. More than enough for both MD and hifiman. Look at that construction, mate.

This way, they can reach for more audience.

HFM fans have a large selection beyond these. Used 500's, 560's, Sundara (new), HE5se, used Ananda's and used HEX V2's. Another $15 to improve the most tawdry aspect of the can isn't going to change its sales figures, or HFM/MD's bottom line.

 

[jsmiller58]

The HFM 4XX has a better headband than any HFM model, and it sounds fine. Senn has the 58X, 6** very similar to the stock models, and all 3 are still active products (although the 650 might get fazed out I understand).

The HFM is a special case IMO as the headbands have been hammered by customers. I don't care that they just include one cable. I'm sure the box is a box with nothing special in it. The pads look stock which is important since finding that shape after market isn't very likely (yet).

I'm not per say against what you are saying, but, that headband is an eyesore, and it doesn't look very comfortable in the stock pics, if it is actually uncomfortable or doesn't keep the cups properly on ones head - than it is indeed a choice of money saved over actual function. If that's so (and obviously I don't know) it's not good. I predict that the reviewers will pick at them, and that it will be a negative factor in buyers choice in many cases.

You could be absolutely right in all you are saying. I was just stating an opinion, and I still hold the opinion... Making the product with a less than ideal headband, in this case, I think was completely intentional so that it would have just this reaction. It will turn some buyers off, including those with the ability and inclination to spend on the higher end models. But, have you checked out the number requested? Clearly there are those not being turned off.

 

[bagwell359]

You could be absolutely right in all you are saying. I was just stating an opinion, and I still hold the opinion... Making the product with a less than ideal headband, in this case, I think was completely intentional so that it would have just this reaction. It will turn some buyers off, including those with the ability and inclination to spend on the higher end models. But, have you checked out the number requested? Clearly there are those not being turned off.

What I am looking at is the price drops on used HEX V2's, and probably Ananda because of this drop. HFM isn't worried about savaging sales of other active lines - or the prices of dead lines -- just look at what they've done in the past eight months:

* re-headbanded 560
* HE5se
* HE6se
* Ananda
* Arya
* MD XX
* official price drop of the HEX V2
* Sundara

If I buy these - if the headband drives me nuts I'll stick them on my 4XX's (which has my old 500 headband on it), and go score one of the newer adjustable headbands (not the fixed one). I won't be stopped, I seldom am, but it's a needless pain in the rump IMO - and ugly.

I won't accept for one second that FB gives a flying crap about running over the sales of other HFM cans. An extra $15 might mean what - 2% less sales for MD, maybe. Or maybe more because of the brilliant appearance and sound of these new offerings.

 

[jsmiller58]

What I am looking at is the price drops on used HEX V2's, and probably Ananda because of this drop. HFM isn't worried about savaging sales of other active lines - or the prices of dead lines -- just look at what they've done in the past eight months:

* re-headbanded 560
* HE5se
* HE6se
* Ananda
* Arya
* MD XX
* official price drop of the HEX V2
* Sundara

If I buy these - if the headband drives me nuts I'll stick them on my 4XX's (which has my old 500 headband on it), and go score one of the newer adjustable headbands (not the fixed one). I won't be stopped, I seldom am, but it's a needless pain in the rump IMO - and ugly.

I won't accept for one second that FB gives a flying crap about running over the sales of other HFM cans. An extra $15 might mean what - 2% less sales for MD, maybe. Or maybe more because of the brilliant appearance and sound of these new offerings.

As I said, you could be absolutely right. I just hold a different opinion, in part because it makes sense to me on the grander scale (that is, the behavior that I described is rational when executed correctly). Possibly HFM is an exception and they behave irrationally. But the market should take care of that in short order.

Anyway, I have no beef with you. Peace out.

 

[knopi]

Uff the headband is like punch to face anyway it is a little like unique prototype look. But the most important thing how big chance is that it will sound like Ananda? If yes I am in for try...

 

[jsmiller58]

Are there third party / aftermarket headbands that we can retrofit onto the XX?

 

[karmazynowy]

Are there third party / aftermarket headbands that we can retrofit onto the XX?

http://store.hifiman.com/index.php/the-newly-enhanced-comfort-headband.html

Not sure it will fit.

 

[buffalomatt]

I am pretty sure you could buy either the edition x or the Ananda headband directly from hifiman and it should fit. I bought a sundara headband from them for $99, so I imagine the price would be similar.

 

[jsmiller58]

I am pretty sure you could buy either the edition x or the Ananda headband directly from hifiman and it should fit. I bought a sundara headband from them for $99, so I imagine the price would be similar.

So, for everyone complaining about the headband... there you go!

 

[Skycyclepilot]

Also could anyone do a short rundown on how this should compare vs others models (ex; 400i, sundara, 560,. etc.)? Also it mentions that you can basically run it from a phone, but realistically speaking, should something like a Topping A30 or Schiit Magni do the trick?

I have the 400i and the Ananda. This new XX looks to be very similar to the Edition X v2 - at least it does in the FR graphs. And the Ananda is basically the Edition X V3. HiFiman says the Ananda and Edition X V2 sound the same, except the Ananda has the tiniest bit more bass extension. The Ananda has more bass, and more bass extension than the 400i, but it's still nothing to get excited about - it's an open planar, after all. Bass easily extends down beyond the range of human hearing but it isn't plentiful. It's accurate, quick, and kind of dry? Overall, beyond the bass differences, the Ananda has a bigger, more lively, more spacious sound than the 400i. I find the 400i and Ananda great for acoustic, classical, and vocal music. To me, they both get a bit sharp with old classic rock and pop music, especially at volume.

 

[kid vic]

http://store.hifiman.com/index.php/the-newly-enhanced-comfort-headband.html

Not sure it will fit.

Interesting, never knew they had made those available as a standard product. I think the cup width is different though.

I am pretty sure you could buy either the edition x or the Ananda headband directly from hifiman and it should fit. I bought a sundara headband from them for $99, so I imagine the price would be similar.

This is more likely I think

 

[bagwell359]

So, for everyone complaining about the headband... there you go!

$99 is a retail price. Remember if the XX loses its 4XX headband, the amount it costs to make and install that is applied to a proper headband, which might increase the ask on the XX $15, $22, $27, $13 or whatever - all under $99, no extra postage and no waiting around.

No way $99 for a decent headband for a product that ought to come with one is an answer.

So pissing off about 1/2 of the buyers (go to MD and read how many people there hate it) to get to that magic $x99 price is a better choice/business model than charging $30 more for the real McCoy?

 

[omniweltall]

No way $99 for a decent headband for a product that ought to come with one is an answer.

Agreed.

But what is wrong with 4XX headband by the way? For me personally, I prefer it to my HEK headband. Comfort is about the same. And after i slap a cloth/leather cover to my liking, 4XX headband looks much better and feel comfier to me.

I dont know. Maybe because I never like HEK/HEX headband to start with. Unless we are talking sbout LCD-2C headband, then I'd probably be pissed as well, mate.

 

[jsmiller58]

$99 is a retail price. Remember if the XX loses its 4XX headband, the amount it costs to make and install that is applied to a proper headband, which might increase the ask on the XX $15, $22, $27, $13 or whatever - all under $99, no extra postage and no waiting around.

No way $99 for a decent headband for a product that ought to come with one is an answer.

So pissing off about 1/2 of the buyers (go to MD and read how many people there hate it) to get to that magic $x99 price is a better choice/business model than charging $30 more for the real McCoy?

Actually over the last 2 days I have read each and every comment on MD about this headphone

Look, I get it. You hate the headband it comes with. You aren't going to go in for this drop. Cool. Good for you. You are a consumer in what I assume is a free society wherever you are writing from. Don't buy. It is OK!!

As to pissing off people... Let's see how the drop goes. Last I checked there were well north of 2000 requests for the drop. Now obviously not everyone will get in who requested. But I am cautiously optimistic about its success.

Let me go out on a limb and suggest that you not get too worked up over this. I don't think you would walk into an audio shop and start complaining to the store owner about how a particular headphone looked (or sounded) and say how it offended you so much that you were pissed off... That would probably be a little silly!

As to me? I am on the fence... Not sure yet. Why? The... headband!! But I am being philosophical about this. Not in the least personally offended. Just not sure I like the look and not sure I want to own it. Definitely not worked up over it. But if I do get in on the drop... I will pay to replace the headband