[holden4th]

I wasn't patient regarding the CTH - SDAC and bought the Burson Play instead. So it was with some chagrin that I saw this Massdrop come around again so quickly. What I liked from the reviews I read here and in other forums was the way it removed the veil from the Senn HD600s which means it will do the same for my 3rd Gen HD580s.

My Burson is still burning in and sounds better every time I use it with the Senns. There is a clarity that I have never heard before and the sound stage is just gorgeous. I'm listening to Fritz Reiner's famous recording of Beethoven's Pastoral symphony as I write this post and I can clearly hear every section of the orchestra well defined and almost pinpointed. I love the way I am engaged with the music. This begs the question - will the CTH-SDAC significantly outperform my Burson Play or do I already have a superior product.

 

[jsmiller58]

I ordered a HD660S and the Massdrop CTH + SDAC. Will the CTH be able to drive the 660S adequately? There's a discussion on the CTH discussion (the one without SDAC integrated) on Massdrop where some folks are arguing the CTH cannot adequately drive the Maddrop HD6xx / HD650 / HD600.

I have the CTH along with 6XX, 58X, and 660s. All are quite easily handled by the CTH.

 

[Pharmaboy]

I ordered a HD660S and the Massdrop CTH + SDAC. Will the CTH be able to drive the 660S adequately? There's a discussion on the CTH discussion (the one without SDAC integrated) on Massdrop where some folks are arguing the CTH cannot adequately drive the Maddrop HD6xx / HD650 / HD600.

1-2 months ago I did an in-depth review of the stock HD650 vs an extensively modded pair. In that process, I listened to both on 4 SS amps, ranked in order of ascending power:

• M Stage Matrix HPA-1 (400 mW @50 ohms; 200 mW @300 ohms) -- SE only
• Lake People G109-A (SE only)
• Liquid Carbon v2 (SE & balanced)
• Violectric V281 (SE & balanced)

All drove these headphones to more than sufficient volume. And all provided rather excellent bass control & tonal/sonic value, as well as sufficient power.

I was surprised how fine the HPA-1, outfitted w/my favorite opamps for this box (2 X OPA827AID on a Browndog adapter) sounded with the HD650. I could live quite happily w/that combination. You will get the usual subtle benefits from running this HP on a balanced amp, but it's hardly a deal-breaker, The HD650 & the mod sounded rather glorious no matter how I amped them.

Haven't heard this HP on a CTH, but the rated power for the CTH seems more than enough for the HD650.

 

[ckhirnigs113]

Anyone think it would be necessary to get a balanced cable for my HD58X if I get this MCTH/SDAC combo? I assume the 58X doesn't necessarily need the extra power, but if someone has had the chance to try this combo both ways, single ended vs balanced, I'd really like to hear their opinion.

 

[jsmiller58]

Anyone think it would be necessary to get a balanced cable for my HD58X if I get this MCTH/SDAC combo? I assume the 58X doesn't necessarily need the extra power, but if someone has had the chance to try this combo both ways, single ended vs balanced, I'd really like to hear their opinion.

I have the MCTH and the 58X. Sound great with both single ended and balanced cables - not sure that my 50-something ears can tell the difference when volume matched. I will check again next week when I get back to my Audio rig.

Based on what I remember, I would recommend using it SE for a while and only getting a balanced cable if you think you might be missing something after listening, like in the unlikely event you don’t think they get loud enough (as far as I am concerned they get WAY loud just through SE). Another reason to get a balanced cable would be if you have a 6XX as that takes a bit more oomph to drive - and bonus the cables are interchangeable between 58X and 6XX.

If you do go the way of balanced cables, I have had good luck with cables from periaptcables.com.

 

[ckhirnigs113]

jsmiller58, Thanks for the info! I have never had nice full-size headphones or a dedicated amp before, so the options are obviously pretty overwhelming. I guess there is certainly no rush to get the balanced cables right now, but it's nice to know that is an option down the line with this amp.

I'm struggling with deciding between the CTH/SDAC vs the LCX/SDAC. I know it's tube hybrid vs solid state, but again, I have never had either. The whole tube-rolling thing overwhelms me a bit. I'm afraid I'd be tempted to go on a never-ending quest for the best tube for the CTH. The solid state option seems like a safe bet, but I keep reading that the Sennheiser phones like my 58X seem to really get on well with tube amps. The questions never end.

 

[jsmiller58]

jsmiller58, Thanks for the info! I have never had nice full-size headphones or a dedicated amp before, so the options are obviously pretty overwhelming. I guess there is certainly no rush to get the balanced cables right now, but it's nice to know that is an option down the line with this amp.

I'm struggling with deciding between the CTH/SDAC vs the LCX/SDAC. I know it's tube hybrid vs solid state, but again, I have never had either. The whole tube-rolling thing overwhelms me a bit. I'm afraid I'd be tempted to go on a never-ending quest for the best tube for the CTH. The solid state option seems like a safe bet, but I keep reading that the Sennheiser phones like my 58X seem to really get on well with tube amps. The questions never end.

I have both of these amps, though too many headphones to have spent much time critically listening to any amp / headphone pairing.

Now I will say that in general they sound very similar. I think that the difference (again, not with my setup right now so all of this is through famously horrible auditory memory) is the LCX is more transparent across the whole spectrum, which is great if you want to have nothing in between the quality of the bits coming out of the DAC (that quality being due to the quality of the recording and the fidelity of the DAC in translating the bits back into the analog music). However, some tracks or headphones, or both, might not be to your liking if they were pure in their presentation, hence the appeal of tubes...

OK, more to the point the CTH is a little softer in the treble region smoothing out just a bit sibilance that I hear in the LCX with same DAC, track, and headphones. It is also a little more “full” (sorry, that term means almost nothing) in the bass region. But he differences are a bit subtle. If you want the full on affect of tubes you want a Little Dot or Darkvoice amp - the CTH by nature of being a hybrid is not nearly as “tubey” sounding... I also have a Little Dot Mk II and like the CTH a lot more, but I tend to like more transparent sounding amps.

If the 58X is your one high end headphone and the choice is between CTH and LCX, I would steer you to the CTH - even the subtle tube effect present is fun... If you have or plan on getting otherhigh end headphones I would steer you to the LCX in that it will be more transparent/accurate. But the differences to my ears are subtle, but there.

If you have a few days when I get back to my setup I can do more focused listening to these combos, otherwise that would be my advice!

 

[kukkurovaca]

Anyone think it would be necessary to get a balanced cable for my HD58X if I get this MCTH/SDAC combo? I assume the 58X doesn't necessarily need the extra power, but if someone has had the chance to try this combo both ways, single ended vs balanced, I'd really like to hear their opinion.

I have the MCTH and the 58X. Sound great with both single ended and balanced cables - not sure that my 50-something ears can tell the difference when volume matched. I will check again next week when I get back to my Audio rig.

Based on what I remember, I would recommend using it SE for a while and only getting a balanced cable if you think you might be missing something after listening, like in the unlikely event you don’t think they get loud enough (as far as I am concerned they get WAY loud just through SE). Another reason to get a balanced cable would be if you have a 6XX as that takes a bit more oomph to drive - and bonus the cables are interchangeable between 58X and 6XX.

If you do go the way of balanced cables, I have had good luck with cables from periaptcables.com.

The CTH is a single-ended amp. The XLR out is just a convenience for those who have headphones cabled that way.

 

[ckhirnigs113]

The CTH is a single-ended amp. The XLR out is just a convenience for those who have headphones cabled that way.

So the CTH is not nearly as powerfull as the LCX using its balanced output? I don't know that I need all the extra power because I don't plan to get any more headphones other than the HD58x I already have, and it is relatively easy to drive. Sounds like the CTH still might be my better choice. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[jsmiller58]

So the CTH is not nearly as powerfull as the LCX using its balanced output? I don't know that I need all the extra power because I don't plan to get any more headphones other than the HD58x I already have, and it is relatively easy to drive. Sounds like the CTH still might be my better choice. Thanks again for all the help.

The comment about the outputs on the CTH and lack of balanced inputs and architecture are spot on. While there is a balanced output on the CTH, it is a "courtesy" output just for headphones cabled that way... Sorry, had forgotten that when i answered the question, and as such if you get the CTH a balanced cable is kinda pointless.

Having said this I have no problems at all out of the CTH with any headphones I have. Hardest ones to drive i have are the DT 1990 (high-ish impedance at 250 ohms) and Sundara (low impedance but low efficiency). I don't have anything crazy hard like Argons or HE-6... If you are planning on going towards hard to drive headphones then CTH may not be your thing, and if you are going REALLY hard to drive then LCX may not be your thing...

That is an advantage of the LCX - it is balanced and the balanced output is rated for higher current. Let's not get into the religious wars over whether volume matched there is any sound quality difference in a desktop setup (ie short cable runs) between single ended and balanced

I would still suggest the CTH if you are sticking with the 58X (and 6XX and similar sound signature cans), and the LCX if you are going to grow your collection of headphones. Balanced and higher drive was a benefit I had failed to consider but adds to that recommendation of LCX if you are growing your collection.

 

[kukkurovaca]

Yeah, there's definitely no need for higher power output unless you're using much harder to drive headphones.

 

[snip3r77]

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-o2-sdac-dac-amp

o2 plus SDAC... how does this compared to schiit stacks and other sub $500 combos.

Thanks.

 

[Baten]

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/massdrop-o2-sdac-dac-amp

o2 plus SDAC... how does this compared to schiit stacks and other sub $500 combos.

Thanks.

This is the perfect entry level product. Doesn't cost a lot, sounds 90% as good as 1000$+ gear, I could live with this one basically.

 

[ohcrapgorillas]

I have been using the SDAC built into my MCTH for a while now. Since I haven't plugged any other DACs into the MCTH, I can't really comment on the two separately, but it's a killer combo with the ZMF Classic mk3. I use this as my office setup and I'm very happy with it. I have always used a Wyrd with the SDAC, and never really questioned the utility of the thing when it came to a USB DAC. Well, today, because I was considering taking the Wyrd home to use as an LPS for my Chromecast Audio, I took it out of the system and ran the USB straight into the SDAC. I have to say, I think it sounds....better? I'm hearing a little more snap and punch on the low end, and slightly better dynamics. Weird.

 

[Bazirker]

I have been using the SDAC built into my MCTH for a while now. Since I haven't plugged any other DACs into the MCTH, I can't really comment on the two separately, but it's a killer combo with the ZMF Classic mk3. I use this as my office setup and I'm very happy with it. I have always used a Wyrd with the SDAC, and never really questioned the utility of the thing when it came to a USB DAC. Well, today, because I was considering taking the Wyrd home to use as an LPS for my Chromecast Audio, I took it out of the system and ran the USB straight into the SDAC. I have to say, I think it sounds....better? I'm hearing a little more snap and punch on the low end, and slightly better dynamics. Weird.

I have the CTH + SDAC, and I do have another DAC plugged in and therefore can comment :-D

If I recall, the SDAC version of the CTH is about $80 more, so...consider the SDAC to be an $80 DAC in this context. I have a $250 Schiit Modi Multibit which I have plugged into my CTH at the moment, so I'm basically doubling the cost of my source gear by adding the Mimby; the Mimby costs 4 times more than the SDAC. The result? The Mimby sounds better than the SDAC, but barely so. If I A/B between them, the SDAC sounds less detailed, more smoothed out, and less dynamic, but it is not a huge difference. Seriously, it requires a direct A/B comparison or a long listening session for me to notice the difference between the two. The difference is subtle enough that I'm considering selling the Mimby and just sticking with the SDAC. I find it to be a pretty impressive little device given it's price, and keep in mind with this comparison that the Mimby is often praised for the priceerformance value it is considered to provide. Comparison done with HD 6XX's. (Yeah I know, I'm livin' that Massdrop life.)