[technobarbie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Origen /img/forum/go_quote.gif is exactly the kind of useful post I mean. If we had a few pages of similar lists, all in one place without a lot of jibber jabber in between, think how useful it would be.

I see your point, and this thread has gotten too long, but I do like the jibber jabber.

 

[mbhaub]

Starting a new one would be productive -- even with the jibber jabber. That's what makes it fun. But many of the older pages have comments from people who are long gone. Keep it fresh. Yeah, start a new one.

 

[PSmith08]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif Starting a new one would be productive -- even with the jibber jabber. That's what makes it fun. But many of the older pages have comments from people who are long gone. Keep it fresh. Yeah, start a new one.

Yeah, this thread has gotten a little on the long side, but I don't see much value in ten or fifteen pages of best-of lists. I, for one, would rather have spirited discussion of music. If ever I want to know someone's best-of, I can always PM them.

Discussion and debate are fun. I am sure that most folks wouldn't care that I prefer Ozawa's Saito Kinen M2 to Abbado's Lucerne disc, unless I gave some reasons and opened the door to some discussion.

Just my two cents.

 

[Pars]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunnyears /img/forum/go_quote.gif You cannot have heard Barenboim conducting the CSO live, and say that! I was privileged to hear him conduct the CSO in NY over the years (most notably Mahler's 5th and Schubert's 8th - Die Grosse) and it was a truly great partnership. In fact, I can't remember a single disappointing concert. I'm most sorry that they didn't record more together, especially in the last few years of the contract when the orchestra and the conductor were so completely in sync. His partnership with the SKB is also great, but there is no way I can fault his work with the CSO.

I was disappointed they didn't hire Abbado instead, however. And I would agree in general terms that Barenboim/CSO was not the greatest of fits.

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pars /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was disappointed they didn't hire Abbado instead, however. And I would agree in general terms that Barenboim/CSO was not the greatest of fits.

Yes where does CSO go from here post Barenboim........not sure Haitink would be a better fit. The Reiner/Solti years are hard to match as far as promoting the CSO with a bold leader. Most people in public assumed Abbado would replace Solti because of his previous work with CSO, and came as a surprise when Barenboim was chosen (I was living in Chicago during this time)

 

[mbhaub]

Let's face it: the day of the symphony conductor being a household name is long gone. My parents, whose taste ran more towards "beautiful music" like Muzak (does that genre even exist anymore?) even know names like Toscanini, Stokowski, Bernstein, and coming from the midwest know who Reiner and Szell were. Who of that stature is out there today? There are certainly conductors who are technically as adept as any of the titans of that past, but there's something missing. Authority? Temperment? Personality? I can't pin it down, but even musicians don't speak of any of the under 60 crowd with the same awe that they do of maestros of the past. I'm sure CSO will pick up some hotshot from Russia, Finland, or England and everything will be fine. But the hallowed days of Reiner and Solti will never return.

 

[pbarach]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSmith08 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Discussion and debate are fun. I am sure that most folks wouldn't care that I prefer Ozawa's Saito Kinen M2 to Abbado's Lucerne disc, unless I gave some reasons and opened the door to some discussion.

I had the Ozawa and sold it, and I have the Abbado/Lucerne on a DVD. So I'd be interested in hearing why you prefer Ozawa. I thought Abbado was inspired on that occasion, as (IMO) he also was on the Lucerne DVD of M9.

 

[tev]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let's face it: the day of the symphony conductor being a household name is long gone. My parents, whose taste ran more towards "beautiful music" like Muzak (does that genre even exist anymore?) even know names like Toscanini, Stokowski, Bernstein, and coming from the midwest know who Reiner and Szell were. Who of that stature is out there today? There are certainly conductors who are technically as adept as any of the titans of that past, but there's something missing. Authority? Temperment? Personality? I can't pin it down, but even musicians don't speak of any of the under 60 crowd with the same awe that they do of maestros of the past. I'm sure CSO will pick up some hotshot from Russia, Finland, or England and everything will be fine. But the hallowed days of Reiner and Solti will never return.

Perhaps it's artistically out of fashion for a conductor to really forge a recognizable sound. Most of the great conductors of the 40's through the 80's had a strong style and sound that took years to develop. Now, so many conductors, orchestras and even halls sound the same. In past, orchestras cherished there unique sound and did anything to achieve it. Take Szell, he even modifed Severance Hall in Cleveland with the Szell Shell to suit his approach. Today no cash strapped orchestra would take such a risk based a one conductor's view. Now, the same acoustician uses the same design model all of the world and as a result the orchestra balances sound nearly alike. I think it takes a certain level of high prosperity and even decadence for great institutionalized art to thrive. Today, our orchestras are just hanging-on, playing it safe, to our own demise.

 

[pbarach]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tev /img/forum/go_quote.gif Take Szell, he even modifed Severance Hall in Cleveland with the Szell Shell to suit his approach.

Just to be clear, I hope you're not saying that Szell designed the wooden shell that was installed in Severance. Heinrich Kielholz designed it, and it was installed after Szell had been there for 10 years (I'm sure Szell had a lot to say about the need for it). I wasn't going to symphony concerts then, but I have never heard anyone say that the 1958 shell was not an improvement.

Severance was designed in the 20's with the idea that it could be used for both staged operas and concerts. Before the 1958 shell was in place, a lot of the orchestra's sound was lost inside the proscenium. The front section of the stage was able to sink down in order to make an orchestral pit. I'm sure that this feature didn't help, either.

The latest renovation is a significant improvement over the 1958 shell. There is a slightly longer period of reverberation (although I'd wish for more), much more solid bass, and smoother high frequencies. I think the musicians have said they can hear each other better. And now there is a functioning pipe organ. However, the design of the hall, with the balcony overhanging all around the edge of the main floor, leaves some seats underneath where there are very odd balances and reflections. If those seats are avoided, the acoustics are great.

 

[tev]

No doubt that the removal of the the shell is an overall improvement, especially when the architectural design is considered. The shell was really ugly. I vaguely remember the sound of the shell, but I thought it contributed to a more immediate, slightly more articulate sound that I always associated with the CO. The acoustic seems more blended and slightly distant now. More romantic maybe. But, my recollections are foggy. However, I do wish that Severance was a bit brighter. I always pine for the sound that Columbia captured in those old recordings at the Masonic.

 

[Fafner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbarach /img/forum/go_quote.gif I had the Ozawa and sold it, and I have the Abbado/Lucerne on a DVD. So I'd be interested in hearing why you prefer Ozawa. I thought Abbado was inspired on that occasion, as (IMO) he also was on the Lucerne DVD of M9.

M9 doesn't come from Lucerne and the orchestra isn't the Lucerne Festival Orchestra (it's the Gustav Mahler Judendorchester and the concert was recorded in Rome).
Abbado hasn't performed Mahler's Ninth with the LFO yet (having attended all LFO/Abbado concerts in Lucerne I'm 101% sure of that

).
This year, after 5 years always presenting a Mahler program, Abbado won't perform Mahler at Lucerne, sadly. This is quite surprising, as an interview from last year confirmed that a Mahler complete DVD cycle was in the works, with only the Eighth to be omitted).

 

[tev]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fafner /img/forum/go_quote.gif M9 doesn't come from Lucerne and the orchestra isn't the Lucerne Festival Orchestra (it's the Gustav Mahler Judendorchester and the concert was recorded in Rome). Abbado hasn't performed Mahler's Ninth with the LFO yet (having attended all LFO/Abbado concerts in Lucerne I'm 101% sure of that ). This year, after 5 years always presenting a Mahler program, Abbado won't perform Mahler at Lucerne, sadly. This is quite surprising, as an interview from last year confirmed that a Mahler complete DVD cycle was in the works, with only the Eighth to be omitted).

No 8th! This would have been spectacular on DVD.

 

[Fafner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tev /img/forum/go_quote.gif No 8th! This would have been spectacular on DVD.

No reason was given for this decision, but I guess that Abbado feels that his health wouldn't allow him to deal with such complex, large scale works anymore.
I only hope that after this year's break he's going to conduct some more Mahler in Lucerne, because all what he has done since 2003 has been nothing short of amazing.

 

[Raptor34]

I just finished listening to the SACD release of the Bernstein/NPO M3. I swore I wouldn't buy it at $65 but it went on sale and I succumbed. Is it worth it? A big yes if you, like me think this is the definitive reading. The improvement over the 20bit Sony cycle is astonishing.

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor34 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just finished listening to the SACD release of the Bernstein/NPO M3. I swore I wouldn't buy it at $65 but it went on sale and I succumbed. Is it worth it? A big yes if you, like me think this is the definitive reading. The improvement over the 20bit Sony cycle is astonishing.

Great to hear..........wonder if more of the Bernstein/NYPO cycle will also be released in SACD format.

The $65 price is just beyond any realm of reason, a travesty

Fortunately I do not have SACD playback so no temptation to buy, it is one of the very best M3 available, top three for sure