[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by suicidal_orange /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am now sold on the Thorens, and am thinking the 160 looks the way to go as it isn't suspended so won't react so badly to being moved. Open to correction on that too though!

Go for a TD125/126 over a 160 if you can find one as they are much better made. They are all suspended but this is a plus point as it means it's more isolated from vibration. Unless you have really bouncy floorboards then it's fine on a low rigid coffee table like the £5 Lack from Ikea.
Most people use Target style tubular steel racks or wall shelves though as this allows you to tweak the suspension very easily. These turn up on ebay fairly fequently.

Loads more info here Thorens Dept.

With any supsended deck make sure the guy shipping it knows how to tighten the suspension for transit before buying it if you are going through the post.

 

[suicidal_orange]

Hmm... there are no 125 or 126's with arms on ebay now. If I say my budget is £150 for a deck about how much should be spent on which parts? Still think I'd be better getting a whole one really, but would be good to learn from the ground up. Then again maybe I'd get frustrated and give up on the idea!

I'll keep looking, not really in a rush. Thanks for the continued help

 

[memepool]

TD125/126's do turn up for less than 150 with the stock arm but wouldn't go for much less without an arm either.

If your budget is 150 for everything then you can't really spend more than 100on the table. You can get a phonostage like the now discontinued NAD PP1 for 20-35 and an AT cart for 20-25.

For this budget the deluxe Dual CS505 with the wooden plinth or an older looking Thorens TD150MK2 are probably the best bet. Another good one is a Goldring Lenco GL-75 which you can often pick up for around 50 depending on condition
LencoLand - Lost Worlds of Lenco . . .

Have you looked at other places besides ebay? the prices on there can get a bit inflated and this is a bad time of year to be looking for bargains to be honest.

 

[SemiAudiophile]

anyone have thoughts on the at 440mla or the grado gold cartridge? i ordered the 440mla a few days ago; i read that they're suppose to sound pretty good. anyone can recommend a cartridge that might sound better in the similar price range? this will be for the philips ga312 table.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile /img/forum/go_quote.gif anyone have thoughts on the at 440mla or the grado gold cartridge? i ordered the 440mla a few days ago; i read that they're suppose to sound pretty good. anyone can recommend a cartridge that might sound better in the similar price range? this will be for the philips ga312 table.

What sounds good first off, with vintage tables, comes down to matching the arm and cart compliance. Failiure to do this means the arm isn't controlling the cart properly or is exciting the resonances of the whole turntable system and creating unwanted colouration.

During the late 1970s when your deck came out there was a trend towards using lower mass tonearms and light springy suspensions on carts. Read more here Tonearm/Cartridge Capability

Your Philips luckily treads the middle course at 11g like a Rega arm which is what the prevailing design trend returned to in the 1980s and has remained so to this day. So most carts you buy today will work fine. The AT440MLA is a good choice having a very advanced stylus for the money.

 

[SemiAudiophile]

thanks for the info. i received the 440mla yesterday, but been having a hard time installing it. well first of all, the wire pins that it came with fits the cartridge but does not fit into the silder that pulls out from the headshell. the wire pins are triangular shaped and the slider connectors are square shaped. and the other thing was that when i set the tracking force to the force stated it seemed like it was still too heavy as it made weird almost grinding noises and i already had it set to the lowest at .75 grams. does anyone know if the headshell for the philips ga312 is replacaeble? i think i'm gonna try replace the headshell, but i can't seem to get it off.

 

[memepool]

The manual is here Philips GA 312 | Manual Free Download, Turntable owners,service,schematics,brochure | Vinyl Engine

It's a similar system to that used by Dual and Garrard, a little fiddly for my liking but cool enough as it potentially allows you to swop out carts without having a break in the arm and sacrificing so much rigidity. You should be able to find the slide out mounting plates on ebay. Look on German ebay maybe if your language skills are up to it.

Triangular cart pins seemed fashionable at that time. I had them on an original Rega RB250. Get some long nose pliers and adjust them to fit the pins very carefully. If you break them, which is easy enough as they get brittle with age, then get out the soldering iron and replace them with some new ones. Ebay again.

 

[SemiAudiophile]

thanks memepool! i got it to work.

it appears that my problem was the counterweight at the end of the tonearm. i had it screwed on a bit too much causing it to add weight to the other end of the tonearm. i also took your advice and used pliers to get the wires connected to the slider. sounds wonderful, although sometimes i can still hear the stylus almost tracking the inner walls of the record. am i still applying too much pressure? 1.4g is optimal tracking force and i have it set at 1g.

another weird thing is that on some older records i don't hear much distortion, but on newer ones the distortion gets pretty bad.

 

[memepool]

Check the alignment with one of these Cartridge Alignment Protractors | Free Turntable, Tonearm & Cartridge Tools | Vinyl Engine

I t also sounds like a stylus force gauge would be useful with this deck. Sometimes the calibrations arn't accurate (I am presuming you zero balanced the arm before setting the downforce yes?) The Shure SFG2 is a good one.

If you still hear distortion after carefully aligning this stylus then the chances are the records are damaged, most likely by a previous worn or misaligned stylus. You can often get around this by changing the alignment method used.

In fact the chances are the Microline tip on the AT440 is tracing below any damage on the older records which is why they sound better, as back then more people would have had a conical stylus.

So by applying the opposite logic the damage inflicted to the newer records was most likely by an eliptical stylus, therefore using an old fashioned conical tip you should be able to trace above it.

Alternate tips should be available cheaply enough to the fit the AT440 or else get a cheap Shure DJ cart like the M44 and another of those Philips mounting plates.

 

[SemiAudiophile]

hrmm...so my cartridge appears to be aligned right. i used the stupid protractor from vinyl engine and also the one from here:

Free Stuff

and both of them showed that my cartridge was aligned correct. but for some reason i can still hear the needle scratching on the record and distortion as well. even when i set it to the lightest tracking force. so what seems to be the problem? i just dont get it.

im gonna try measure with a stylus force guage now...man is setting up cartridges always this difficult???

 

[ssportclay]

Mounting cartridges seemed simple enough when I was in my teens but now that I am in my 50s, it seems much more difficult. Cartridges with threads are a great invention. I tend to mount new cartridges at the highest allowable tracking force. It seems that most of them need a break in period and this will help you. You can always adjust it lighter after about 100 hours or so. Fine line styli are also sensitive about the tracking angle so you want to try to get the top of the cartridge parallel with the record to start with. This should be fine tuned by ear once the cartridge breaks in. The scratching you hear could be the result of a dirty or worn recording.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile /img/forum/go_quote.gif hrmm...so my cartridge appears to be aligned right. i used the stupid protractor from vinyl engine and also the one from here: Free Stuff and both of them showed that my cartridge was aligned correct. but for some reason i can still hear the needle scratching on the record and distortion as well. even when i set it to the lightest tracking force. so what seems to be the problem? i just dont get it. im gonna try measure with a stylus force guage now...man is setting up cartridges always this difficult???

It takes a lot of patience and there are various different methods of alignment. It's not a one size fits all thing where you can ever really say 100% that the cart is absolutely perfectly aligned with an eliptical or contact line stylus, unless you are using Dr. Feickert or Wally's Tools or something like that which is expensive. Most people can get it good enough by ear.

But we are still on about some of your 2nd hand modern records as opposed to older 2nd hand ones right?

If that's the case these records are damaged and you can most probably get around this by using a conical stylus as I suggested. Cleaning them is also a good idea.

With 2nd hand records you can never know what kind of equipment they've been played on and whether it was set up properly. Have you tried any new records?

 

[SemiAudiophile]

nah, the record i used to test it on is brand new, so it can't be the record. i ordered the shure sfg-2 the other day. so i'm just gonna wait and double check the tracking force, though i kind of doubt its the force.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile /img/forum/go_quote.gif nah, the record i used to test it on is brand new, so it can't be the record. i ordered the shure sfg-2 the other day. so i'm just gonna wait and double check the tracking force, though i kind of doubt its the force.

Sounds as though you had it set up better before with the older records where you were'nt hearing distortion.
What does the cart look like when it's playing? is it bouncing around or fairly steady? what is the deck sitting on? have you checked it's level with a spirit level? Have you set the anti-skating at zero when you set the downforce?

 

[SemiAudiophile]

the cart bounces up and down a little, but for the most part it is steady. the deck is sitting on a very sturdy coffee table on solid ground. what's a spirit level? it's leveled pretty good as far as i can tell. i usually set the anti-skating equal to the amount of force i set because that's what is instructed in the manual. but i'm pretty sure i tried setting anti-skate to zero before and i could still hear the scratching/distortion. i just hope its not damaging my records.

with the older records, i don't hear as much distortion, but i can still hear the scratching on the record. when i bought the deck it came with an old Ortofon FF15XE MkII already installed. and i had no problems with it while setting the force to about 1.5g. the cartridge was just old and sounded pretty bland that's why i decided to upgrade. but, oh well.