Long, meandering comparison of Stax 404 and Stax X-III, Episode I
Apr 16, 2006 at 5:36 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 255

Lloyd297

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I thought a detailed comparison of the two Stax phones I own might be of interest to a few of you. I've commented briefly in the past on their relative abilities as I see them, but my penchant for verbosity, garrulousness, and completeness has finally made me take the plunge and do a voluminous comparison.

To keep it digestible, however, I'll do it in episodes, comparing the two in each on one or two musical pieces and trying to draw tentative conclusions identifying the particular set of strengths and weaknesses of the two.

My methodology is simple: I listen to the whole first and only then proceed to the parts in order to explain and clarify my immediate intuitive response. I swallow the "Eroica" whole and in the light of this gluttonous engorgement then recollect at leisure all the manifold aspects that make up this whole.

In this, I seem to differ from many audiophiles who seem to ingest the dish a tiny mouthful at a time, - through tightly-strained lips as it were; here the "highs", there the "bass", next the "upper-mids", "lower-mids", and "dynamics" with "imagery", "sound-stage", and the rest of the hydra-headed remainder following in dribs and drabs thereafter. Only after totting up the sum of individual attributes do they take the plunge and pronounce on the whole. But each to his own......

The 404 is the latest and highest in the long series beginning with the Lambda back in the days when Valiant Knights were Slaying Fearsome Dragons and Saving Fair Damsels and Plunging their Mighty C...s into Lusty Wenches and......well, if it hadn't been for the Omega the 404 would still be the Stax flagship as it's a direct descendant of the Lambda Pro Signature which was supposed to be the bee's knees when it was first introduced only shortly after the Days When Valiant Knights.......

The X-III hails from the days when Tyrannosaurus Rex ruled the earth and man huddled in caves and spent their days hoping a huge asteroid would come and wipe Mr Rex from the face of the earth. Like the Lambda Signature it used to be the Stax flagship but this was in the days when phones were phones and didn't try to be small speakers resting on the sides of the head.

As the 404 is new and the X-III is old and progress is progress then the comparison might seem to be a waste of time. But I don't think so. I use both phones regularly and I happen to prefer.....well, that would be letting the cat out of the bag, wouldn't it?

I generally listen to the X-III through the SRD-7 transformer hooked up to a massive power amp but to keep the comparison simple, I'll begin by comparing both phones through the Stax 006t headphone amp.

And so to the chase.......

J.S.Bach - St Mathew Passion (Schreier, Phillips)

Appropriate music for the moment and overall I preferred the 404 on this one. This music requires scale and the 404 delivered in a way the X-III couldn't equal. The X-III doesn't expand with the huge choral climaxes in the way the 404 does so effortlessly. With the newer phone you enter into and become part of the acoustic while with the X-III you just hear aspects of this acoustic without ever sensing it as a whole that you're experiencing viscerally. The 404 wraps you in its acoustic; the X-III allows you to hear the various echoes, decays, and reverberations but doesn't invite you in like the 404 does. Paradoxically, the X-III is much closer in its sonic presentation; instruments often seem ear-tweakingly close, whereas the 404 places the strings, choir, and voices back in the auditorium but with the listener inhabiting the same acoustic space. The X-III is more like sitting in a studio control-room listening to the feed from the various microphones picking up the music, the 404 more like sitting in the church attending the original performance.

However, there is more to the story. While the 404 gave a greater sense of the whole on this oratorio, the X-III had quite an edge on some of the parts. It had more timbre, a lot more, and the individual instruments sounded more realistic and with much more of their real-world sonic signature preserved. They also sounded sweeter, prettier, and more fluid, the 404 displaying a few impurities as well as a relatively constricted, homogenized tonal palette. It could occasionally sound more incisive with the upper-registers poking through the mix but the contrast of colour lacked the effortless multifariousness of the X-III.

The X-III also seemed to capture the multi-miking used in the recording far more readily than the 404. The choir sounded much more on a section-by-section basis with antiphonal effects while on the 404 it was a relatively homogenized whole.

So I guess it boils down to perspective: do you want to hear what the engineers hear or would you prefer to hear a simulation of what the original performance sounded like?

Next we'll move to Radiohead's "OK Computer". But at another time........
 
Apr 16, 2006 at 9:17 AM Post #2 of 255
Nice writeup, I still haven't heard the x-3 so descriptions like this are fun until I can get to hear a set. I don't know whether I'd want to buy a set at some stage in the future or not. They seem to sound interesting though not necessarily all that musical or involving, but that opinion differs from person to person but overall the opinions do seem to confirm that for the most part.

I look forward to part two
lambda.gif
 
Apr 16, 2006 at 9:52 PM Post #3 of 255
Unless I missed something you didn't clarify whether the SRXMKII was low bias or pro. I assume it is low bias. If so you are also contrasting a low bias with a high bias phone.

I have recently made a similar comaprison of Stax Sigmas athough I had to use different amps for each phone. http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...ighlight=sigma

I note that the low bias sets, even though supplanted by high bias, have some good features, notably a somewhat sweeter sound. They do lack dynamics, but not critically so. I would imagine that with your setup, using a big power amp to run the also obsolete transformer-driven SRD-7, that the dynamics might very well eclipse those of a high bias set run from a Stax headphone amp. As well, the ambience s more evident in low bias. As I note previously, this is probably the result of the lesser dynamics. I.E compressed signals show more ambience.

My point is rather like yours, don't underrate the older Stax phones. For some kinds of use you may even prefer them to more recent offerings.

I liked the low bias Sigmas for music and it was only with dvd's that the high bias rely could be argued to be notably superior.

I suspect we are not alone in prizing the older, low bias units and that is why Stax continues to put low bias sockets in many of its new amps. (alas not the 717).
 
Apr 17, 2006 at 5:13 AM Post #4 of 255
Radiohead:OK Computer (EMI)

Another split decision with me preferring some aspects of the 404 and others on the X-III. It depends what you want. If you want to hear the studio control desk feed the X-III does just this; but if you simply prefer to wallow in the music without caring whether it's reproducing accurately what the mikes are picking up then the 404 may well be more your bag.

The 404's sound bigger with deeper and more prominent bass while the X-III's always sound a trifle small and unenveloping by comparison. However, interestingly enough the instruments in the main don't individually sound any bigger with the 404. What happens is that there's a large cavernous space in which the instruments appear as small parts of a larger canvas. With the X-III the instruments are as large for the most part but they appear as discrete entities with their own individual acoustic haloes. The larger acoustic space just isn't there in anything like the same degree.

The individual instruments, however, sound significantly more solid, tangible, and present with the X-III. The sense of "liveness" comes across in a way the 404 can't match. The latter never sounds really "physical"; it softens everything, even closely-miked instruments, and loses that sense of listening to instruments made of solid materials, weighing in some cases hundreds of pounds. Everything sounds ghostly and intangible. I'll add that this may be a source of attraction to many listeners because there's a delicacy and refinement to the sound that can be very addictive.

The X-III is much more present and closer in balance and considerably more up-front and "in your face". However, it still preserves its equanimity, never sounding harsh or metallic and only occasionally betraying itself with a mild "shoutiness". The 404 never shouts but it leans to the wispy and scratchy side in its presentation of the high percussive sounds on the Radiohead CD. Despite its close-up view of these instruments, it still never makes them sound substantial. Cymbals, scrapers, and bells sound "processed", as though they're produced by synthesizers rather than by actual physical objects. The X-III has a lot more "metal" with metallic percussive instruments but still sounds a trifle softened with the 006t amp. Stats for my money don't do the top end very realistically although they can sound magically ethereal in this region. I'd take a good ribbon any day for high frequencies.

Another area where the X-III scores is tone-colour. Instruments shine - in an almost literal sense - whereas the 404 loses their lustre and makes them sound homogenized and "grey" by comparison. It's as if you're listening to the instruments out in the sunshine with the X-III but inside a room with its muted and darkened colours with the 404. Guitars ring and sparkle through the X-III but lose their clarion aspect when heard through the 404. Instruments sound misty and diffuse with an ersatz incisiveness through the 404, this incisiveness being the notorious Lamba "etch". I say "ersatz" because the incisiveness is less a matter of increased resolution than undue high-frequency prominence. In fact, the 404 has less resolution and differentiation than the X-III. Subtle effects are more evident through the older phone while they tend to be slightly smeared and homogenized on the 404.

The X-III is rhythmically faster, in fact more of a rock 'n' roll phone in almost every way than the 404. It has more propulsion and percussiveness, and drives the music along in a way that the 404 can't match. The latter is far more laid-back and relaxed but this vice turns into a virtue on the slower, more spacious songs. Songs like "Exit Music" have a spaciousness and grandeur that the X-III can only aspire to.

Another area in which the 404 reigns supreme is macro-dynamics. It simply expands with the great climaxes. The X-III doesn't give up or struggle for breath but it just never gives the same sense of massiveness. It just stops giving at a certain point.

Verdict: X-III A Minus
404 B Plus
 
Apr 18, 2006 at 2:20 AM Post #5 of 255
Grieg: Violin Sonatas (Charlier/Engerer; Harmonia Mundi)

Yet another split decision! Swings and roundabouts in sweet profusion!

Once again the X-III brings the instruments closer and in finer focus. The piano sounds very true and lifelike, the violin slightly too forward in balance, a touch "shut-in" and a little "pinched" in tone. It's very tuneful and vivid, however, although there is a touch of astringency on the transients. Once again, the sound is clearly more tangible and solid than
through the 404. However, the X-III has a smaller, more constricted acoustic, with the two instruments having their own discrete acoustics with halos surrounding each. The piano resonates more and sounds as if it's coming from a larger room than the violin.

The 404 is greyer, more distanced, and more muted, with the violin sounding more ethereal and less astringent. The piano sounds darker and more sombre and the acoustic is both bigger and more homogenized. The two performers sound more like they're inhabiting the same space. This acoustic, however, is less definite than the one the X-III reproduces; I'd describe it as vaguely cavernous while the X-III's acoustic, especially with the piano, sounds distinct and specific. I get the feeling I could recognize the recording venue more readily through the X-III.

While listening to the 404 I could hear these low-level white noise-ish sounds and turned to the X-III to try to clear up the mystery. They were actually the sniffs of the violinist and I thought the X-III made them more identifiable although they were slightly more noticeable on the 404. The 404 offers up oodles of high-frequency information but sometimes lacks the timbral resolution to clarify what precisely is happening; you often hear rustlings or fizzing sounds but can't quite work out what they're coming from.

One word characterizations of the sonic presentation? I'd say the X-III offers a "springlike" view of the music; the 404 an "autumnal" perspective.

I'm going to give both a B Plus but will quickly add that this in no way suggests they sound anything like each other. Both deviate from the ideal in roughly equal amounts but in very different ways.
 
Apr 18, 2006 at 3:11 AM Post #6 of 255
Does the Sr-X sound better out of the stax amp or speaker amp and srd-7?

I was planning on building a KSGS this summer and I was wondering if there was a good improvement.
 
Apr 18, 2006 at 4:11 AM Post #7 of 255
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmatrix
Does the Sr-X sound better out of the stax amp or speaker amp and srd-7?

I was planning on building a KSGS this summer and I was wondering if there was a good improvement.



Transformer boxes will simply relay the performance of the pre- and power-amps that go before it, with a slight signal degradation because of the electrolytics and such in the transformer box.

Direct-drive electrostatic amps have their own sound. Good ones (and the KGSS is certainly good) perform at or above the level of most power amps.
 
Apr 18, 2006 at 4:14 AM Post #8 of 255
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmatrix
Does the Sr-X sound better out of the stax amp or speaker amp and srd-7?


I was going to get to that later in the review but if you promise not to tell anybody I prefer the X-III through the transformer with a top-class power amp. The Stax amps are OK but I'd spend my money on something like a Nuforce amp.
 
Apr 18, 2006 at 4:17 AM Post #9 of 255
Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow
Unless I missed something you didn't clarify whether the SRXMKII was low bias or pro. I assume it is low bias. If so you are also contrasting a low bias with a high bias phone.


It is the low bias. I'd love to hear the high-bias version of the X-III but I'm wondering if it actually ever existed. There are rumours but........
 
Apr 18, 2006 at 4:49 AM Post #11 of 255
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lloyd297
It is the low bias. I'd love to hear the high-bias version of the X-III but I'm wondering if it actually ever existed. There are rumours but........


It does exist, but is very rare.

If one pops up on ebay then join my and Wualta's battle to the [financial] death at your peril.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tachikoma
Question, would it make a difference to use a balanced power amp if I'm driving the stax headphones through a transformer?


You mean push-pull? Yeah, that's fine.



I'm seriously considering building/getting custom made a pair of 45 PP->10Y PP transformer-coupled monoblocks (or 10Y->45, I haven't decided yet), and then getting a custom built (ie, not a Stax one) I/V transformer, as opposed to getting a direct-drive electrostatic amp, as is de rigueur.
The limitations of only using high-volate tubes, and the annoying preeminence of IDHT OTL designs has forced my hand somewhat.
 
Apr 18, 2006 at 8:01 AM Post #14 of 255
NEVER!!!
I'd rather liven on boiled hamster droppings and stewed garden clippings than give up my 313. Pity my 313 only has 2 pro bias outlets as I'd like to run them direct from the amp when I eventually get them rather than the tranformer.

Eventually, (like in the next 10 or 20 years) I intend to have the SR-x III, Sigma Pro and Omegas.
Oh, and a Koss 950 if I ever see a cheap one up somewhere. Sadly I don't even have any children I could sell/swap
frown.gif
 
Apr 18, 2006 at 8:52 AM Post #15 of 255
Quote:

Originally Posted by smeggy
Sadly I don't even have any children I could sell/swap
frown.gif



Having children is like buying headphones; it's even better when you know you could sell or trade them if you decide you don't like them.
 

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