[iamxLn]

report in when you get those hifiman so we can hear how you like it, i found the 408a to have a MASSIVE sound stage for the mad dogs 

 

[rovopio]

  Hi,
 
As for tube noise; any new tube can be noisy.  Usually the noise (typically hum and hiss) will disappear with use.  This is not unusual with tubes, as many here will testify.   You really need to let the stock tubes settle-in, which could be 10-20 (sometimes more) hours of playing.  Which tubes did you order your  LD1+ with?
 
Tube pins may be cleaned (gently) with any good electrical contact cleaner.  I use an ordinary electrical contact spray with good results. 
 
Hope this helps.

 
My LD i+ comes with the cheapest 6JI tubes.
 
Can you recommend any electrical contact spray brand for me to buy? I've never used one (nor see one) and when I went to the local Ace Hardware and ask the employee, he didn't understand what I was saying.
 
I just google'd "electrical contact spray" just now and the first few results was wd-40 with yellow cap "Specialist Electrical Contact Cleaner".
I have the normal wd-40 red cap at my place, can these do? I've never seen the yellow cap wd-40 before but the red cap is everywhere.

 

[WilliamLeonhart]

I heard the Chinese 6JI are crap... Mine came with the Valvo 6CQ6 but those weren't good either. Tube upgrade is the only way to go with the I+.

 

[MunkyOne]

   
My LD i+ comes with the cheapest 6JI tubes.
 
Can you recommend any electrical contact spray brand for me to buy? I've never used one (nor see one) and when I went to the local Ace Hardware and ask the employee, he didn't understand what I was saying.
 
I just google'd "electrical contact spray" just now and the first few results was wd-40 with yellow cap "Specialist Electrical Contact Cleaner".
I have the normal wd-40 red cap at my place, can these do? I've never seen the yellow cap wd-40 before but the red cap is everywhere.

 
 
Hi,
 
Those stock tubes may well be ok for you; some people seem to like them.  I would give them time to settle-in before evaluating them.  All tubes need some time to reveal their true character, as a lot of subtle material changes happen during the first hours of use.  There are more experienced tube rollers than I here, who can guide future tube choices.  For example, gibosi is very active here and his posts have certainly helped my tube rolling efforts.  Check out some of his posts.
 
I would never recommend WD40 red cap for use in electronics.  It is ok for some car electrics etc, but not suitable for electronic circuits, as it will not dissolve dirt and oxides and it will leave a residue which may adversely affect the circuit operation.
 
The product I use is branded 'BARDAHL' and is one of the cheaper cleaners that will remove dirt and oxides from electrical contacts, without leaving any residue.  Not sure if it is available outside EU though.   Which country are you in? 
 
I think that WD40 make a specialist contact cleaner, though I have not tried it.   Here it is  but I can't vouch for it, as I haven't used it.  Or there is this and this.
 
Basically, what you need is any specialist cleaner that will remove dirt and oxides from electrical contacts, without leaving any residue.   I would have thought that any good electrical hardware store, or perhaps one that sells electronics would have something similar.
 
Hope this helps.

 

[gkmackey]

  report in when you get those hifiman so we can hear how you like it, i found the 408a to have a MASSIVE sound stage for the mad dogs 

Will do

 

[MunkyOne]

  As far as I know my ODAC has an output of 2V, which means the LD will output about 7V (yep 3.5x gain is right, I must have been using the phone to type the previous message). That seems to make the I+ clip, resulting in the jitter noises that I had. When I turn down the ODAC to half its volume (in Windows), the I+ gives perfect sound as usual.

Hi,
 
I have no experience of the ODAC product, but as you say you are able to stop the distortion from within windows, it suggests to me that there may be a configuration issue between the driver, windows or the player app. 
 
Some questions:
With the windows volume at the distortion level, are you able to stop the distortion by turning down the LD1+ volume?
 
Do you have another amp you can connect to the ODAC, to eliminate the LD1+ from the equation?
 
Can you use another device (CD, DAP etc.) with the LS1+ (again to eliminate the LD1+ from the equation)?
 
How is your the ODAC confiured in Windows and what application are you playng from?
 
 
The LD1+ is for the most part a very good design, and easily capable of accepting the industry (Redbook) standard 2-volts at input.  Of the many devices I have connected to the LD1+, I have yet to find one that can drive the LD1+ to clipping.  I have, on the other hand, experienced SQ issues when devices were not properly configured in Windows or my player app, so it is worth reviewing your config settings at this point.
 
I see you are a Grado man.  I love the LD1+ with my Grados, especially with the MUSES02 op-amp in the LD1+.  Well worth a try, at some point.

 

[WilliamLeonhart]

   
I see you are a Grado man.  I love the LD1+ with my Grados, especially with the MUSES02 op-amp in the LD1+.  Well worth a try, at some point.

Thanks for your compliments on my Grados. This is not the first time I've seen someone putting so much praise towards the MUSES02, perhaps it's really the next purchase for me.
 
Regarding your questions, the answers are as below: 

   
Some questions:
With the windows volume at the distortion level, are you able to stop the distortion by turning down the LD1+ volume?
No. It happens to my O2 too.
 
Do you have another amp you can connect to the ODAC, to eliminate the LD1+ from the equation?
It first happen on my O2+ODAC unit (the amp and the DAC are integrated on the same chasis). The O2 that I have seems to have 5X gain and clips like crazy when I put the ODAC at max volume. At 75% it's completely gone.
 
Can you use another device (CD, DAP etc.) with the LS1+ (again to eliminate the LD1+ from the equation)?
I had another ODAC that has 3.5mm output instead of the ODAC with RCA output that I'm using. Clipping didn't happen on the 3.5mm.
I have another DAC too (see the pic below) and it seems to have clipping when at 100% volume in Windows too. This DAC also output via RCA, but to be honest I don't know much about the difference.
http://stereo.vn/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/HW-DAC1-2.jpg
 
How is your the ODAC confiured in Windows and what application are you playng from?
I simply plugged it in, Windows automatically recognizes the driver. I use it with foobar and select ODAC as an output from the Options window of foobar.
 

Thank you for all these questions To be honest my knowledge in this field is very limited and without the head-fi community I wouldn't make it this far in the headphone game

 

[rovopio]

  I think that WD40 make a specialist contact cleaner, though I have not tried it.   Here it is  but I can't vouch for it, as I haven't used it.  Or there is this and this.
 
Basically, what you need is any specialist cleaner that will remove dirt and oxides from electrical contacts, without leaving any residue.   I would have thought that any good electrical hardware store, or perhaps one that sells electronics would have something similar.
 
Hope this helps.

 
I can't even find a power cable in Ace Hardware or PC store, and i live in the capital, so yeah.
I ordered a power cable from amazon, I might get contact cleaner from amazon as well.
 
By the way, can i ask how do i use those contact cleaner? So i take it I need to spray the pins right? and then what? Do i need to scrape them with pen knife after I spray or do i just need to let them dry naturally after i spray?
 
cheers...

 

[gibosi]

  By the way, can i ask how do i use those contact cleaner? So i take it I need to spray the pins right? and then what? Do i need to scrape them with pen knife after I spray or do i just need to let them dry naturally after i spray?
 

 
Usually all that is necessary is to scrap the pins with a dull knife. I use the top of an X-ACTO blade as the tip is narrow enough to easily fit in between the pins. Sometimes, especially with octal tubes in a different amp, I clean further with DeoxIT D-series cleaner. Simply apply it to the pins, wait a couple minutes, and then wipe off.
 
So to more directly answer your question, scrape the pins first, and then, if you want, apply a contact cleaner, wait a few minutes, and wipe it off. If you don't wipe the contact cleaner off, over time, the sockets might get sticky and gooey.

 

[MunkyOne]

HI,
 
It is as gibosi says.  I always use a scalpel to scrape the worst off, then apply a light spray of contact cleaner to just the pins.  I always use a contact cleaner that dries immediately and does not leve any residue.  This way I never have any issues with pins becoming sticky and attracting more dirt.  The main thing is to be gentle in handling the pins.

 

[MunkyOne]

  Thanks for your compliments on my Grados. This is not the first time I've seen someone putting so much praise towards the MUSES02, perhaps it's really the next purchase for me.
 
Regarding your questions, the answers are as below: 
Thank you for all these questions To be honest my knowledge in this field is very limited and without the head-fi community I wouldn't make it this far in the headphone game

Hi,
 
We are all in the same boat at some point; I have learned so much from the folks here as well as other forums.  Joining Head-Fi was a very good move; it's an amazing resource.
 
From your answers, it still looks like the problem may be in the Windows / driver / Foobar config somewhere.  The amount of gain an amplifier has does not matter, so long as the design is good and it is working properly and it is fed a good signal.  The higher gain of some amps will simply exaggerate the distortion more.  If you experienced clipping with two different amps, then it is safe to assume that the problem lies before the amp.
 
If you right-click on the windows volume control and select playback devices, then right click on the ODAC device and select properties, you can check that the options are correct for that device.  Windows will never auto-config optional parameters, so it is worth a look.  Look at the 'Enhancements' tab and disable all of the enhancements.   Then, in the 'Advanced' tab, check to ensure that the sample rate isn't set higher than the ODAC's maximum rate.  Also check the two boxes for 'exclusive mode'.
 
While am not familiar with Foobar, I would suggest looking around the audio settings, ensuring that none are set beyond the ODAC's capabilities
 
I have just found this document which confirms the settings you need to look at in windows for the ODAC, as well as causes for distorted sound, which seem reasonable.  Read and adjust accordingly.
 
This may be worth a read through for Foobar / ASIO etc settings in windows.
 
Hope this helps.

 

[nojwe]

  I just installed a set of WE 408A what is the amount of "break-in" time for tubes? Do I need to have the LD +1 connected to headphones to do this? Many thanks in advance.
 

   
In my experience, anywhere from 20 to 50 hours is pretty typical. That said, unless they don't sound all that good out of the box, it is certainly not necessary to run them unattended for hours at a time. Just listen to your music and enjoy.
 
But if you want to burn them in by running them unattended for hours at a time, then yes, Little Dot recommends that headphones should always be attached when the amp is in use. I use a $5 pair of IEMs when running the amp unattended.
 
Quote:

 
That bro. I really appreciate the information.

 

 
 
I'll add that you should not leave the amp running for 20-50 hours straight. It's a short enough time period that I say just listen normally and you might notice some pleasant changes as the tubes break in.
 
 

 

[WilliamLeonhart]

 
Hi,
 
We are all in the same boat at some point; I have learned so much from the folks here as well as other forums.  Joining Head-Fi was a very good move; it's an amazing resource.
 
From your answers, it still looks like the problem may be in the Windows / driver / Foobar config somewhere.  The amount of gain an amplifier has does not matter, so long as the design is good and it is working properly and it is fed a good signal.  The higher gain of some amps will simply exaggerate the distortion more.  If you experienced clipping with two different amps, then it is safe to assume that the problem lies before the amp.
 
If you right-click on the windows volume control and select playback devices, then right click on the ODAC device and select properties, you can check that the options are correct for that device.  Windows will never auto-config optional parameters, so it is worth a look.  Look at the 'Enhancements' tab and disable all of the enhancements.   Then, in the 'Advanced' tab, check to ensure that the sample rate isn't set higher than the ODAC's maximum rate.  Also check the two boxes for 'exclusive mode'.
 
While am not familiar with Foobar, I would suggest looking around the audio settings, ensuring that none are set beyond the ODAC's capabilities
 
I have just found this document which confirms the settings you need to look at in windows for the ODAC, as well as causes for distorted sound, which seem reasonable.  Read and adjust accordingly.
 
This may be worth a read through for Foobar / ASIO etc settings in windows.
 
Hope this helps.

Thank you for this detailed advice. I have checked everything on my ODAC and yep it's all correct, no parameters set out of range at all. Enhancements disabled. Sample rates are at 24/96 (Windows won't show higher), all the boxxes are checked.
 
I've found that in the same song, when ODAC is at 100% in WIndows, I can hear tiny popping noises. When it's at 90% and I raise the volume on the LD I+, the jitters are all gone.
 
I still think clipping is the problem here. I first found out about this when putting my intergrated O2 + ODAC on high gain. When I use the O2 (on high gain) with my iPhone 5, the jitters are gone. My O2+ODAC is not from JDS Labs but from Epiphany.
 
This is very strange since I think 2V * 3.5x gain from the I+ is not too much at all. It seems the output from my ODAC has some problem.

 

[MunkyOne]

  Thank you for this detailed advice. I have checked everything on my ODAC and yep it's all correct, no parameters set out of range at all. Enhancements disabled. Sample rates are at 24/96 (Windows won't show higher), all the boxxes are checked.
 
I've found that in the same song, when ODAC is at 100% in WIndows, I can hear tiny popping noises. When it's at 90% and I raise the volume on the LD I+, the jitters are all gone.
 
I still think clipping is the problem here. I first found out about this when putting my intergrated O2 + ODAC on high gain. When I use the O2 (on high gain) with my iPhone 5, the jitters are gone. My O2+ODAC is not from JDS Labs but from Epiphany.
 
This is very strange since I think 2V * 3.5x gain from the I+ is not too much at all. It seems the output from my ODAC has some problem.

Things to look at:
 
 
INPUT FILES:
When you say "...in the same song, when ODAC is at 100% in Windows,.."  Do you get the same problem with all songs with a similar dynamic range?   I have had to re-rip some of my CDs due to audible artifacts in the digital files, which are often only noticeable at higher volumes.  I have also downloaded files that contain audible artifacts.  There are a lot of badly ripped digital music files out there.  Some of my CDs are badly recorded and have artifacts, which (of course) end up in the ripped files.  Worth a look?  As we say in the computing community; rubbish in = rubbish out.  Try different files / types.
 
You say: "When I use the O2 (on high gain) with my iPhone 5, the jitters are gone."   Is this with another copy of the same digital music file that you can hear artifacts when playing through Foobar/ODAC/LD!+?  If not, then try it with the same file.
 
 
WINDOWS:
Need to be sure that this is not part of the problem.  Download this and run it on your windows system.  It is a DPC latency checker from Thesycon.  It is good for looking at whether your windows platform has any latency issues that might affect the quality of audio streams etc.  You just let it run for a few minutes and look at the graph.  If you see red bars or very high yellow ones, then there may well be a problem driver/s causing audio streaming issues.   I have used it when I have experienced audible artifacts, to isolate my laptop from the equation.  Worth a go.
 
What are you running Foobar on?  Sometimes if we have an under-specced or just very busy computer, we can expect occasional artifacts.  I can easily replicate this but working my laptop hard while playing music from iRiver.
 
To eliminate your windows platform from the equation; do you have access to another device with a digital out?  Or another PC/MAC?  To connect to the ODAC and LD1+ as a test (using the same input files, of course.
 
 
DAC:
 
Do you have another DAC that you can connect between your computer and the LD1+?  This will be very useful at this point.
 
 
AMP:
 
You have had the same problems with your O2/ODAC combo, so it is very unlikely the amp at fault here.  As for the gain of the amp; this is of no consequence here.  The gain of the LD1+, even if it were 7x (or higher) would not be a cause of clipping, assuming it is properly designed to operate at that gain and is working as it should.  Unless the amp is driven with an unusually high input voltage (>2v), it should be ok no matter the gain factor.   As you say that you can replicate the distortion with another amp, we are clearly looking at something else.  I regularly feed my LD1+ with a 2v input from my DAC / DAP (FiiO is 2v out) without issue.  Can you feed your LD1+ from your iPhone line out using a song that you had a problem with?  This should show you that the LD1+ is working ok, although I recognise that Apple devices don't conform to the industy (Redbook) standards for line out voltage, being <2v.
 
 
If after all of the above, the ODAC seems to be the problem, then it may be worth investigating it, but that would requite access to a scope, or getting someone (Epiphany?) to check it, as a last resort, of course.
 
Sorry I'm a bit long-winded, but there are so many suspects here
 
 
 

 

[rovopio]

@Munky,
 
can I ask you something about DAC and PC but only tangentially related to Little Dot i+.
1) If i upgrade from my current fiio e10k as a DAC, to a Modi or a ODAC or any affordable entry-level standalone DAC, will I hear a big, --or small, or even any-- difference at all?
2) If i for example, decide to sell my fiio e10k and plug the LD i+ and my amps directly to my PC. I know from PC forum that I should plug it to the Green Hole.
My question is... since headphone in itself is also plugged in into the Green Hole (for everybody that doesn't have an amp)... SO... plugging an amps there without a dedicated DAC, does that mean it's going to be double-amping?
 
3) Basically... How do I know if the Green Hole on my PC motherboard is a Headphone Out or a Line Out?
I have a Z87 average motherboard with 6 holes. pink-green-blue and three other hole colors below that that I can't remember.