[n4pd3f]

Hello.  Sorry for the goofy first-timer post.  
 
Along with my recent equipment purchases, I've been experiencing something I need help sorting out.  After interwebbing, I think listener fatigue is probably the closest topic to what I'm experiencing, but basically it's a headache/irritation that really limits my listening time (eventually I want to take a break after 30/45 or so minutes). 
 
A little background - while I've avoided streaming and sourced all my music from FLAC for years, I recently took my equipment purchases more seriously and after much research got an AK Jr, Cayin C5 paired with OPPO PM-3's.  I don't always use the Cayin, but it seems to have little effect on the "fatigue".  I also do not listen on high volume.
 
So, what are some things I can do to try and figure out the cause?  I don't get the same results when the headphones are not involved - like listening to the same portable setup in the car or thru a portable speaker.  I really enjoy the PM-3's, but I wonder if they're not the right headphones for me?

Hope this is not too ambiguous or subjective.  Thanks!

 

[Transmaniacon]

Listener fatigue is generally caused by a more pronounced high end.  It's odd that you find that is the case with the Oppo PM-3, as many seem to consider them a bit more rolled off than something like AKG or Beyerdynamic.  However we all hear differently, and you may just need something that is even more veiled sounding.
 
I would give the Sennheiser Momentum 2 over-ear a try, I think they will offer a sound that is less harsh to your ears.

 

[Sattelight]

As said above, high frequencies are a major contributor. If you can lower the upper frequencies via EQ, that may help.

For me a bigger problem is compressed recording in terms of dynamic range. When I got my Q701's, which are rather treble heavy, I found certain albums incredibly fatiguing to the point of not even being able to listen to a full album at a time. Other albums had no such effect. I eventually realized that the problem was primarily the dynamic range and mastering in general.

If you find that the fatigue only occurs intermittently then I'd recommending comparing the dynamic range values of the albums and see if there is correlation between compression and fatigue.

If you experience the fatigue all the time then it is likely something about your gear not agreeing with you. I found the Mad Dogs to be great for albums that caused fatigue with my Q's.

Good luck

 

[n4pd3f]

Great feedback, thank you so much.
 
What's the best way to analyze the dynamic range of my albums/files?  I primarily listen to metal and I'm curious if maybe I could find benefit in adjusting my encoding choices.
 
I also plan to experiment with the EQ settings.  The DAC has nothing to do with the high end though?  It's the source files and the headphones that I should focus on?
 
I might just buy the Sennheiser's too and see if that helps, even though I'll be disappointed that the OPPO's aren't a match for my head.  Thanks for the suggestion on another set of headphones.

 

[Sattelight]

  Great feedback, thank you so much.
 
What's the best way to analyze the dynamic range of my albums/files?

If you use foobar, there is a component available (http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/free-downloads) that will analyze the files. You can also check the Dynamic Range Database (http://dr.loudness-war.info/) for dynamic range values. Different releases of the same album will have different values based depending on the mastering. In general, older releases have better dynamic range and most albums that have been remastered, especially in the last 15-20 years, suffer from dynamic range compression.

 I primarily listen to metal and I'm curious if maybe I could find benefit in adjusting my encoding choices.

The encoding process will have no (or negligible) affect on the dynamic range. Flac vs. mp3 etc. will not have any bearing on the dynamic range. In general, metal has a tendency to be highly compressed and poorly mastered (with notable exceptions) which leads to disappointing results on headphones in general and "bright" headphones in particular. 

 I also plan to experiment with the EQ settings.  The DAC has nothing to do with the high end though?  It's the source files and the headphones that I should focus on?
 
I might just buy the Sennheiser's too and see if that helps, even though I'll be disappointed that the OPPO's aren't a match for my head.

Some DACs have EQ capabilities, while most do not. In general, the EQing would be done via a program before the signal is sent to the DAC. Most DACs are also tuned to be as neutral as possible, while individual headphones add the most "color" to the sound. Basically, the headphones make a much bigger difference in how the music sounds than the DAC or amp and should therefore receive the most attention when trying to get the right sound for you, personally. Ultimately, everything hinges on the source file itself; no setup can make a bad file good, although certain setups can help mitigate specific problems (such as dynamic range compression, or a sensitivity to sibilance.) 
 
Most Sennheisers are known for being "dark" headphones and would likely mitigate listener fatigue, but if you can get your hands on other versions of your albums that have higher dynamic range (if they exist) then that would probably help the most. 

 

[12many]

A couple things you can try are to turn down the volume and see if that helps.  And, try different music types, such as music with lower frequency content. 
 
I get 'fatigue' or something where I don't enjoy it and the music is irritating if it is too loud, or the source is of poor quality.
 
Try sitting a quite room for 5 minutes before you listen and keep the volume down.  (I understand that takes away from Metal music).  Don't hurt your hearing. 
 
Also, try diff music type like lower male vocals to see if a different type of music does not cause it. 

 

[n4pd3f]

Ok, all this information has sent me down a few rabbit holes.  I thought I had more control of my music with my source and gear chain selection - but I see that there's a lot out of my control before the CD gets to me.
 
So, I guess that high frequency has nothing to do with a large dynamic range?  You can have high frequencies anywhere in a dynamic range, even if it has been squeezed or compressed, correct?  Can someone point me in the right direction in understanding how frequency and dynamic range is correlated to the fatigue issue?  I can confirm that most of the albums I'm listening too unfortunately have a low dynamic range rating.  But without any technical knowledge, I am inclined to think that a low dynamic range rating would create a flatter sound, I would see it as "in the middle" and be missing high highs and low lows, which I relate to frequencies.  I might be missing some fundamental sound principles. 
 
Additionally, the only albums that I've found so far in my collection to have a high dynamic range rating would need to be sourced from Vinyl.  I understand that the "vinyl is better than CD" is not a technical measurement - but what happens to the CD for it to have a different dynamic range than the same album in Vinyl?  Especially considering that it's likely the same digital recording was used to create both?
 
Much appreciation to you guys for taking the time to answer my questions specifically, even though most of this information is out there, it's hard to untangle as a beginner.

 

[Sattelight]

  Ok, all this information has sent me down a few rabbit holes.  I thought I had more control of my music with my source and gear chain selection - but I see that there's a lot out of my control before the CD gets to me.
 
So, I guess that high frequency has nothing to do with a large dynamic range?

Frequency response and dynamic range are indeed entirely separate constructs, which can independently lead to listener fatigue. Frequency response refers to bass, treble, mids etc.Different headphones will emphasize different areas of the frequency response. This can be measured and compared to different headphones. You can check the frequency response of your particular headphones at this link (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/oppo-pm-3-competent-comfortable-mobile-headphone-measurements#3RAXkTEUidsKxlfK.97) but don't expect the charts to mean much to you. The important idea is that the different frequency response of the headphones can give you can idea of whether they are likely to be fatiguing or not, although there are other factors. Because treble emphasis can be fatiguing, headphones that emphasize treble will be more fatiguing. None of this has anything to do with dynamic range however.
 
Dynamic range is the measure of the uniformity of how loud a particular track is. Tracks that have loud parts and quiet parts will have larger dynamic range. During the mastering process, the tracks undergo a process known as compression. This process is intended to make the track uniformly loud. A picture is worth a thousand words:

Here are the waveforms for the same track from a Metallica's Death Magnetic. When Death Magnetic came out, it was promoted by being included as a DLC for Guitar Hero. Guitar hero received the tracks before the compression process had been applied and difference is extraordinary. 
 
Both factors (frequency response and dynamic range) can contribute to listener fatigue but unfortunately there is nothing we can do about it other than doing research before making purchases. The difference between between vinyl and CDs is purely a product of mastering. In general, compression techniques are not applied to vinyl releases while they are applied to CD releases. I cannot explain the logic behind this but the result is that a vinyl version will often sound much better than a CD version. This doesn't mean that vinyl is better than CDs, it simply means that companies put better material on records than CDs and they therefore sound better. 
 
Hope this helps! I completely understand the struggle. Spending money on quality gear and having crappy sound is not fun. 

 

[jorgeu]

I'm actually experiencing this with my schiit modi2/magni2 stack with Beyerdynamic 770 250 ohm. I haven't use them in the last 5 days.
I got a horrible migraine last week and my ears now have that constant high freq whistle.
I will try getting replacement pads and head band for the headphones but for now I'm in a forced headphone diet.