[Golden Monkey]

I've noticed a few posts where people have used a Little Dot III or IV as a preamp for their MKV. Just looking for a bit more detail on the experience now. How do the 3's or 4's perform as a preamp for the V? Have you tried doing it the other way around (MKV as pre for the tube amps, and if so why or why not?).

Curious as well on how you ontrol the volume overall...do you set the preamp at a certain level, and control your outpt volume through the MKV, or crank up the MKV and control it through the preamp?

Any recommendations between the III, IV, and IVse? Is the overall gain in sound quality worth the expense, or is it more worth it to have the versatility of a tube and SS amp?

Thanks folks....

 

[wae5]

I have both the MKIV SE and MKV. The MKIV SE can be used as an active and passive pre amp because it has a pre amp out. The MKV doesn’t have a pre amp out so it cannot be used this way. If you connect the output of the MKV to the input of the MKIV SE, you will be amplifying an already amplified signal and that will destroy the MKIV SE so please never do this. When the MKIV SE is used as a passive pre amp, the amp doesn’t need to be turned on and the volume control acts as a variable passive resistor so when the volume is turned up, it acts like a faucet that controls the output level of the input (source) signal that goes into the MKIV SE. This means the passive pre amp output is never louder than the source signal that goes into the MKIV SE. When the MKIV SE is used as an active pre amp the signal passes through the smaller tubes and is (slightly) amplified by them. You can prove this to yourself by comparing the level of the MKIV SE volume control when it’s used as a passive pre amp to the level of the volume control when it’s used as an active pre amp. The volume control is lower when the MKIV SE used as an active pre amp. When the MKIV SE is used in the active and passive modes the MKV volume control works too. I use the MKIV SE as a passive pre amp to daisy chain amps using just one source. I use the MKIV SE as an active pre amp to add tube flavor to the MKV sound. This is a subtle thing but it increases the possibilities of hearing interesting sound. I am not an engineer so what I say here is based on what I think happens and not what I know happens.

 

[shadowmoses]

Very curious about the Mk III/IV preamp to Mk V setup as well as i bought the Mk III 2 months back and the the Mk V juz came less than 2 weeks ago.

When using the Mk V alone, i'm really enjoying the improved clarity and separation of the instruments and the better extended bass. my question is: If i use the Mk III as a preamp, i'd expect an improvement in the vocals, but will if affect (negatively) the purity of the sound compared to using the Mk V alone?

As for why i don't listen for myself since i have both, i'm don't have a decent pair of rca interconnects now as i'm still in china, but will def do the comparison when i get back to home country haha.. meanwhile, hope to hear the opinions of those who've tried this set-up.

p.s. i don't see how you can use the Mk V as a pre-amp to the Mk III/IV/SE unless you use the headphone out whereas the MKIII/IVs have an RCA out to another amp when used as a pre-amp.

 

[penguindude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've noticed a few posts where people have used a Little Dot III or IV as a preamp for their MKV. Just looking for a bit more detail on the experience now. How do the 3's or 4's perform as a preamp for the V? Have you tried doing it the other way around (MKV as pre for the tube amps, and if so why or why not?). Curious as well on how you ontrol the volume overall...do you set the preamp at a certain level, and control your outpt volume through the MKV, or crank up the MKV and control it through the preamp? Any recommendations between the III, IV, and IVse? Is the overall gain in sound quality worth the expense, or is it more worth it to have the versatility of a tube and SS amp? Thanks folks....

I believe instead of seeking for a preamp, you should be looking for a balanced setup.

 

[wae5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowmoses /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very curious about the Mk III/IV preamp to Mk V setup as well as i bought the Mk III 2 months back and the the Mk V juz came less than 2 weeks ago. When using the Mk V alone, i'm really enjoying the improved clarity and separation of the instruments and the better extended bass. my question is: If i use the Mk III as a preamp, i'd expect an improvement in the vocals, but will if affect (negatively) the purity of the sound compared to using the Mk V alone? As for why i don't listen for myself since i have both, i'm don't have a decent pair of rca interconnects now as i'm still in china, but will def do the comparison when i get back to home country haha.. meanwhile, hope to hear the opinions of those who've tried this set-up. p.s. i don't see how you can use the Mk V as a pre-amp to the Mk III/IV/SE unless you use the headphone out whereas the MKIII/IVs have an RCA out to another amp when used as a pre-amp.

It must affect the purity of the sound (slightly?) because the signal must pass through more stuff. But since the only reason to use the MKIV SE as an active pre amp is to add tube distortion to the crystalline SS sound of the MKV, I wouldn’t be too concerned about the purity of the sound because you can always stop using the MKIV SE as a pre amp if it degrades the sound too much for you. I tried it because David from LD suggested it.

 

[wae5]

I just did a test. I used the MKIV SE as an active pre amp and turned the MKIV SE volume control all the way up and set the MKV volume control at 30 which is my normal listening level. I turned the MKIV SE and the source off while I listened to the MKV and heard scratchy sounds and buzzing noises coming from the MIV SE as was reported by vvanrij in post #521 on page #53 in this thread (Review of Little-Dot MKIVse - Page 53 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio). These sounds gradually subsided over 10 minutes. When I no longer heard any extraneous sounds, I turned the MKIV SE volume control all the way up with its power turned off and restarted the source. To hear at a comparable volume level I needed to set the MKV volume control between 70 and 80. The moral of this tale is don’t use the MKIV SE as a passive pre amp when you’ve just used it as an active pre amp. If you have, let it cool down for at least 10 minutes then it should sound just fine.

 

[Golden Monkey]

Thanks for the details, wae5...very helpful. Yeah, after I posted that, I had one of those "...wait a sec, you can't do that" moments regarding using them the other way around.

How do you switch between active and passive on the IV? Is it just a matter of powering it on, or is there some sort of switch?

 

[wae5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the details, wae5...very helpful. Yeah, after I posted that, I had one of those "...wait a sec, you can't do that" moments regarding using them the other way around. How do you switch between active and passive on the IV? Is it just a matter of powering it on, or is there some sort of switch?

If you don't turn the MKIV SE on it's passive. If you turn it on, it's active, just like making love.

Problems arise when you turn the MKIV SE off when going from active to passive while leaving the MKV connected to it and turned on. Here's where you'll hear pops and scratches as the tubes graduallty cool down and lose their charge. I don't do this but since I use the MKIV SE in passive mode most of time this isn't a problem for me. I'm listening to Lutoslawski's Dances and Preludes (Hyperion CDA66215) this way now and it sounds ravishing.

 

[vvanrij]

Ahh good discovery wae5, this makes much more sense!

 

[shadowmoses]

Ok the temptation was too much to bear, so when i got home, i hooked up the Mk III as a pre-amp to the Mk V using the cheapo 10 rmb rca interconnect that came free with the Mk V, it'll have to do until i can get a replacement.

At first, i tried the Mk III has a passive pre-amp ie with the power off. The source signal did go through to the Mk V, but was greatly weakened. with the Mk III volume at max, i still had to crank up the volume of the Mk V to double the normal levels. Don't think I'll try that again.

Then i turned on the Mk III, so it's in active mode now. I was blown away! In exchange for the slightly hard-edged sound of the Mk V, I've gotten back the tubey goodness of the Mk III. Vocals are back to the lushness as expected of the Mk III, but the bass and separation still retains the clarity and sparkle of the Mk V. Listening to "the Vultures" i felt that instruments were even more lifelike than with the Mk V alone and the details seem to pop out even more! It is quite truly, the best of both worlds. this is just a first opinion and isn't a review of any sort. Still listening as i type this. Bear in mind, this is with a 10 RMB interconnect and a not-fully-burnt-in Mk V.

One problem with the set up is that the cables running behind the little Dots (Mk III sitting on top of the MK V) are in a right mess right now, and i think that's contributing to a little interference. Will have to sort it out later.

Word of caution, i find that this set-up leans on the warm side of things. it may not suit all genres of music, but is great for what i listen to. Owners of both the Mk V and Mk III/IV, if you've not tried this yet, you owe yourself a listen. Owners of the Mk V, not sure if the added expense of another Mk III or IV is justified, that's for you to decide. But for Mk III owners, i wholeheartedly feel the addition of a Mk V can't go wrong. It's worth every penny/dime/cent paid for it.

 

[tfarney]

I'm confused. What would be the point of using a tube amp, with no tone controls or switching capacity, as a passive preamp?

Tim

 

[vvanrij]

There is no point, probably just saves up a connection or something, putting it in a amp/receiver to further split the signal would be a better idea imo.

 

[wae5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfarney /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm confused. What would be the point of using a tube amp, with no tone controls or switching capacity, as a passive preamp? Tim

It makes it easier to use one source when comparing phones. I don't need to turn on my MKIV SE when I don't want to use it as a active pre amp. The MKV does have source switching capability so I can always use a different source by bypassing the MIV SE used as an active or passive pre amp. For a headphone junky like me it increases my choices and that's a good thing.

 

[Golden Monkey]

shadowmoses, thanks for your impressions. Sounds good! I don't know if it's something I would really need to do, as I'm quite happy with my setup as is, but a MKIVse sitting on top of the MKV would be cool, lol. With my setup, mostly using HD650's, and even though the MKV is SS, and I'm using digital sources, I still have a very warm and "tubelike" sound. I think it's mostly down to the DAC though. When I bypass the DAC and run RCA's to the amp from the CDP, it DOES have much more of an edge, and has more digital harshness. There's also a tiny bit more sparkle in the treble, but overall is much more fatigueing. The OMZ DAC has a very natural and refined sound quality, and with everything else in the chain, I have a detailed, natural, spacious, clear, and visceral listening experience. I don't know, maybe tubes would add TOO much warmth.

 

[shadowmoses]

hi GM, well i'm still pretty new at the head-fi game, so take my opinions with a pinch of salt! the LDs are my first foray into desktop amps and i only got both of them in a hurry because i'll be in china for 3 months only. Penchum's poisonous reviews didn't help either.. hehe..

the iBasso D1 is supposedly a pretty neutral sounding DAC, so maybe that's why the addition of the MK III pre-amp didn't bring the warmness over the top. after a little more listening last night, i found that the MK III also brought out a much more open soundstage to the music! this really surprised me as i've never heard much of a soundstage with the MS1s before. However, on closer inspection, i also found the vocals to be a less personal, i think it's due to the poor interconnects used.

Actually, one of the reasons i bought the MK V was because i intend to get the D2000s as my next can and the Mk III supposedly won't be able to drive them well. seeing as u have one, would really appreciate your opinions of the D2000s when used with the MK V!