[OhmsClaw]

So I got to a/b the wandla GS edition and laiv using the hm1 to switch back and forth with a press of a button. These 2 dacs are fighting neck and neck and it's gonna come down to preference.

To me the wandla sounds bit more dynamic with better transients, slightly cleaner and ever so slightly more resolution but the difference is tiny. The laiv def has that r2r typical characteristic of sounding a bit softer and smoother and warmer. The wandla sounds a bit forward and the laiv sounds a little more laid back and more texturally rich. The build quality on the laiv is just absolutely insane it looks like a mini msb dac, one of the most impressesive aesthetics and build quality of any dac.

People saying the laiv is a giant killer, no its not. A spring 3 is probaly better imo and the holo may is a very decent step up above the laiv.

What about OS/NOS compaired to the Wandla GS in stock (no enhancement) HQP filter (Apod or whatever "default" you chose)?

Edit: what were the sample rates you fed it? I would not consider DSD to be a proper test comparison for these units (as an all to 16xPCM and modulated DS)

 

[GoldenSound]

What about OS/NOS compaired to the Wandla GS in stock (no enhancement) HQP filter (Apod or whatever "default" you chose)?

Edit: what were the sample rates you fed it? I would not consider DSD to be a proper test comparison for these units (as an all to 16xPCM and modulated DS)

The Laiv was running OS since running NOS would cause treble rolloff vs the Wandla.

DSD wouldn't be appropriate since the Laiv doesn't convert DSD natively (technically neither does ESS but it's a little more grey)

 

[]eep]

I don't feel it's the same tier as the May or a Wavedream or something.

It's a very good DAC for the money, but tbh I think the people saying it's a $10k DAC giant killer are overhyping it

Let's face it, there is enough overpriced stuff that people buy that is not nearly as good as the price suggests. Not every component of the same price performs equally well. Those are easy to beat.

@all
Among them are always well know brands. I remember a very expensive Swiss Goldmund cd-player that had a big expensive case and garnered lots of praise... But inside was just a small $100 pioneer DVD player.
I also remember Red Rose Audio by Mr Mark Levinson that got top reviews everywhere. But... The amps were engineered and made in China by Dussun and sold for 1/10 of the price. Same as the speakers that were made by Aurum Cantus. Just with a different badge.

So if anyone screams 'hyped' I am thinking of something very different. I'm more thinking of 'Bose'.

The fact is, the Laiv Harmony costs $2700 and those who heard it like it very much. And don't refuse to review it because it's sub par. Those that nobody hears about but reads about in the printed glossy's. We have a very dutch saying here: "Just act normal because normal is crazy enough".

Btw, I hate the term "influencer". Bought stooges. Let's not copy their behaviour and we're fine.

Another btw: I have still a couple of DACs here that really are giant killers at €50 that beat many 1k models. I listened to a 100k McIntosh & Focal setup over 10 years ago and my dac was better. IMHO that is. I wasn't impressed anyway.

 

[audiobill]

The LAiV site shows it supports a maximum DSD rate of 256, yet one reviewer claims he used it with HQ Player providing DSD512 and in another the display showed 1024. Can anyone explain this discrepancy? (Btw 6Moons clearly said the Harmony doesn't OS with DSD.) TIA

 

[GoldenSound]

The LAiV site shows it supports a maximum DSD rate of 256, yet one reviewer claims he used it with HQ Player providing DSD512 and in another the display showed 1024. Can anyone explain this discrepancy? (Btw 6Moons clearly said the Harmony doesn't OS with DSD.) TIA

I'm not sure what the max rate is, but DSD is converted to PCM internally anyway

 

[audiobill]

I'm not sure what the max rate is, but DSD is converted to PCM internally anyway

Thanks and I understand that, but with all due respect I'd still appreciate my question being addressed.

 

[]eep]

Thanks and I understand that, but with all due respect I'd still appreciate my question being addressed.

The thing is, you can't process DSD. It's designed just for storage. Not to do calculations on, filters , mixing, DSP etc. If you have a DSD master that you want to 'remaster' as in remove hiss, equalise etc you have to convert to PCM first. All your information is in that DSD. Upsampling that makes no sense even if it could be done. You won't get more information.
Or convert to PCM, apply your algos and convert back to DSD in a higher rate. You will not get more information, just AI fiction.

The Harmony converts any DSD to PCM so it makes no sense to feed it DSD1024 or whatever fancy upsampling. All that converting is never good for the final sound quality. Upsampling on a computer makes sense because it has way more computing power than a simple old chip in a dac. But then a computer makes way more noise as well because it uses a lot of power.

Remember that engineering is the art of compromise. The Laiv team probably chose this compromise to get what they think is the optimal price performance ratio in most realistic scenarios.

 

[OhmsClaw]

Thanks and I understand that, but with all due respect I'd still appreciate my question being addressed.

@GoldenSound I think what he's asking... respectfully, is if you still have it on hand could you please run through some high rates and see what it accepts If not we can wait for the Laiv gentleman to respond.

Though @audiobill I do think this is redundant unless you have 512 native files and are worried about your library compatibility. Can't HQP "downsample" to 256 anyhow? It's all going to PCM regardless of the source.

@]eep agreed.

 

[audiobill]

@GoldenSound I think what he's asking... respectfully, is if you still have it on hand could you please run through some high rates and see what it accepts If not we can wait for the Laiv gentleman to respond.

Though @audiobill I do think this is redundant unless you have 512 native files and are worried about your library compatibility. Can't HQP "downsample" to 256 anyhow? It's all going to PCM regardless of the source.

@]eep agreed.

Thanks to those who have responded, and I do have some DSD512 files but don't run HQP. Trying to confirm the maximum rate of the Harmony's input DSD support.

 

[L2470]

I think the developers will comment.

 

[naynay]

From what I have heard anything above DSD256 shows No signal / Unsupported Sampling. But reviewer VirtualHifi confirmed otherwise as he had DSD512 playing and also showing DSD512 on the Laiv display.

 

[audiobill]

From what I have heard anything above DSD256 shows No signal / Unsupported Sampling. But reviewer VirtualHifi confirmed otherwise as he had DSD512 playing and also showing DSD512 on the Laiv display.

Yes... and that's the reason for my confusion!

 

[naynay]

Yes... and that's the reason for my confusion!

If nobody chimes in to confirm this I can later today.

 

[wengfai]

LAiV Harmony DAC is a R-2R DAC that processes multi-bit signals. 1-bit signals from DSD will be reconstructed into multi-bit signals via FPGA before passing to the balanced R-2R ladder array network. All DSD will be reconstructed to the highest sampling rate, either at 705.6kHz or 768kHz, depending on the DSD multiplier, whether it's a multiple of 44.1kHz or 48kHz.

The Harmony DAC support DSD256 over USB and I2S inputs, officially.

 

[naynay]