[]eep]

I ha

I have no doubt that this Dac is great but it is way too expensive. I prefer to put this amount of money on better speakers. They have much more impact on sound than a Dac regardless how good it is

It is not expensive, but I agree that it's still a lot of money. Expensive is always relative to perceived value. It it were a car for €5400 you wouldn't say it's expensive, would you? Or a boat, or a house, or a jet... It's a luxury item that is more useful than a omega watch. Or a Birkin bag. When it comes to functionality. But if you already have a very good system, it's cheap. It's all so relative. This dac is about 1/10th of my speakers.

Like Ivor Tiefenbrun of Linn would say a 20k kitchen won't make your food taste any better. But a good stereo will make your music sound better.

It all depends on your system. You are absolutely right about speakers. They contribute a lot to the overall sound. But so does the source. You always need to decide what is the weakest link and improve that. In my system it's definitely not the speakers but the dac. My turntable tells me so. If in your case it's the speakers; get better speakers. It's always about balance. And scalability.

 

[]eep]

Is the output impedance of 1200 Ohms not a problem ? It seems high and may represent a problem for some amps, no ?

It's 600 for single ended, which is ok. Balanced needs to double that of course. The input impedance of balanced inputs should be double too.

 

[Kutusov]

I have no doubt that this Dac is great but it is way too expensive. I prefer to put this amount of money on better speakers. They have much more impact on sound than a Dac regardless how good it is

Well, doesn't have to be one or the other, or the two right away. In my experience, when you upgrade speakers, you also upgrade the ability to hear the shortcomings of stuff in the chain. And if you get a 3k set of speakers, you are not getting all the benefits that money bought you through a 500 dac. There are too many exceptions for this to be a rule but I actually find that equivalent priced pieces of gear tend to jazz better with each other.

But do get the speakers first, like you said, that's probably the biggest change. This is highly controversial (what isn't in this hifi stuff...) but I do find bigger differences coming from DACs than between good amps. So you might want to look at your dac situation better later on and, by then, maybe something better or equally good and cheaper came to market. Or your new speakers made you realize that your priorities in listening have changed.

For example, I got myself a pair of Lintons maybe 6 months ago and I was using a Denafrips Ares II. It's great and velvety. But so are the speakers and that's actually not a good synergy. I was considering this DAC but then the Holo Cyan 2 made a lot more sense for my setup, with the bonus of being cheaper. Not only do I think I made the right choice because the Holo is wonderful with the Lintons, I found out I really prefer a truly NOS DAC. With these speakers, that's me done when it comes to DACs. The Laiv should be great with more aggressive and clinical speakers.

 

[dakchi]

I ha

It is not expensive, but I agree that it's still a lot of money. Expensive is always relative to perceived value. It it were a car for €5400 you wouldn't say it's expensive, would you? Or a boat, or a house, or a jet... It's a luxury item that is more useful than a omega watch. Or a Birkin bag. When it comes to functionality. But if you already have a very good system, it's cheap. It's all so relative. This dac is about 1/10th of my speakers.

Like Ivor Tiefenbrun of Linn would say a 20k kitchen won't make your food taste any better. But a good stereo will make your music sound better.

It all depends on your system. You are absolutely right about speakers. They contribute a lot to the overall sound. But so does the source. You always need to decide what is the weakest link and improve that. In my system it's definitely not the speakers but the dac. My turntable tells me so. If in your case it's the speakers; get better speakers. It's always about balance. And scalability.

What I mean is that having excellent expensive speakers with cheap dac will sound much better than cheap speakers with expensive Dac. That’s why I prefer to add this money on better speakers

 

[]eep]

You can really order blind and without hesitation ! I have ordered dozens of gears by them, never had a problem, they ship and react quickly. Great professionnals ! The return policy works flawless

I didn't say they weren't professional. It's just the payment and transport service I have a problem with. Transport services can be really, really annoying. I'm now in a heated dispute with FedEx, and a friend had stuff from Hermes that just vanished... I tried to buy a pair of Fosi ZA3 but I got stuck in rounding off.

Nothing bad about audiophonics.fr. Probably just my autistic self

 

[Dandion]

So, this thing does not support MQA streaming files?

 

[]eep]

What I mean is that having excellent expensive speakers with cheap dac will sound much better than cheap speakers with expensive Dac. That’s why I prefer to add this money on better speakers

That is not true. You are forgetting scalability. Like DACs have an output stage that is very defining for the quality so do speakers have an input filter. Exception R2R DACs and fullrange speakers.

In budget speakers this crossover is often hidden and made of very cheesy parts. You need to see a music system as passing on information. If you start with a bad signal with low information you can never increase it, you can only lose it going downstream. That's called gigo (garbage in, garbage out). Using low quality parts you lose more, using more complicated parts you lose even more. These do not scale with better source material.

Use as little parts of highest quality you keep the most information. Then you will scale up well with the better source material, more information you put in.

There are small speakers that will sound better and better on every upgrade in partnering electronics. And some big speakers that sound bold and meaty that will never sound better no matter what you put in front of it. Frequency response is irrelevant here.

A gifted and responsible, honest designer will make sure the crossover is with the best possible parts. But that's never cheap.

 

[Jake2]

What I mean is that having excellent expensive speakers with cheap dac will sound much better than cheap speakers with expensive Dac. That’s why I prefer to add this money on better speakers

Life would be simpler if this were always true but, my experience was the complete opposite - my super resolving speakers ruthlessly revealed all the short-comings of my modest then-sabre DAC. Was near unlistenable, a shouty thin sound with serious buyers remorse till I got a better DAC. It was a totally unbalanced system to be fair. Whereas some more modest $1k speakers were far more forgiving and sounded good/fine. Another counter-example is using a better and better portable digital signal path/DAC into my stock VW car stereo aux line in or a JBL Xtreme 2 portable speaker: Ipad > Holo Titanis > Douk U2 Pro (with Crystek CCHH956 upgrade) > Toslink > Ifi Gryphon xDSD > line out. Both were completely transformed - like Hyde-to-Jekyll level transformed - and with each of the improvements in the source path easily audible. Don't underrate the impact of a source was my takewaway.

 

[Jon L]

my super resolving speakers ruthlessly revealed all the short-comings of my modest then-sabre DAC.

IME, super resolving speakers do not equal ruthlessly revealing. Regardless of price, ruthlessly revealing speakers were often just designed/executed poorly.

 

[Jake2]

IME, super resolving speakers do not equal ruthlessly revealing. Regardless of price, ruthlessly revealing speakers were often just designed/executed poorly.

Quite possibly, I don’t have enough experience with a broad range of higher end speakers. What I’ve definitely found is synergy is super important. Including just this week Class A vs Class D amps for example.

I should add the ‘ruthlessly revealing’ comment was a not particularly scientific one in relation to the difference between the new speakers and the cheaper ones I had prior.

 

[thecrow]

I have no doubt that this Dac is great but it is way too expensive. I prefer to put this amount of money on better speakers. They have much more impact on sound than a Dac regardless how good it is

Fair enough

 

[BlackMagic]

This is highly controversial (what isn't in this hifi stuff...) but I do find bigger differences coming from DACs than between good amps.

Could not agree more, although you are not going to see that from any Reviews of ultra expensive Amps. Take a D’Agostino I’ve listened to + others … just opinion of course. For main Speakers at least, the Amp is of less importance (imo) than a good Dac (+ Preamp). From 2007 and still true today I reckon – Paul Miller from HiFi News :

“… the evolution of analogue PWM amplifier technology, has not otherwise had the impact on amplifier design, that it has in DVD or even CD replay (technology), in the last 10 years. So a top flight amp from 1995 (or even 1985), would still stand and be counted today”.

A decent Dac today, is worthy of very expensive Speakers.

 

[s37en gr]

A question for the people that already made an order from Audiophonics..

The DAC is listed for 2.999 euros incl. VAT (20% for France)
However, when I select TVA for Greece (24% vs 20% in France) , the price changes accordingly.
So, help me understand, since i am buying from one EU country to another EU country, why would i have to choose TVA for Greece and pay more?

I was under the impression that this price goes for every country in the EU, since the product has already been imported in France, and transaction within EU (France to Greece in my case) has no excess tax.

I asked Audiophonics support the same question and the answer was not clear to me..
"...Once you have selected the correct country, all prices displayed will have the proper VAT rate, according to the selected country.
The law compels us to match the VAT-rate to that of the delivery country, not the country of purchase...."

I really cannot understand how that can be the case buying within EU.

 

[OhmsClaw]

Fair enough

Or upgrade IEM's you're looking pretty good my guy in all other areas.

 

[Lucus]

Hi
Yes unfortunately, as a private person, you have to pay the VAT of the country you are living in/delivering. It is to avoid opportunity buying to have reduction in tax, otherwise everybody would buy from internet in a foreign country and have it delivered home. Only for end private customers. For professionnal it is "reverse charge" (no VAT)