Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Uhm... are you picking on the fact that I only had an hour with the headphones, 320kbps MP3s, the iMod, the Cardas interconnect or my PPAv2?
I can't say for certain, but I assume he was alluding to your lack of an adequate source and amplification.
Originally Posted by Fing /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm definitely a low level listener and finding the threshold where they're loud enough to 'open up' and yet not too loud to distort is a problem I find with these cans.
Concerning the HD-650/600, I get the same thing with the K1000 which need a lot more welly to sound good. Seems the 'tipping point' for open headphones seems a little broader than closed headphones as I find that the HE90 also have a bit more flexibility between 'loud enough' and 'too loud'.
ah ... yes. that makes sense. Fing, you are just a wealth of knowledge and certainly have an impressive array of headphones and experience to support your always helpful and insightful posts.
Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Uhm... are you picking on the fact that I only had an hour with the headphones, 320kbps MP3s, the iMod, the Cardas interconnect or my PPAv2?
I simply didn't like the headphones, I was A LOT more impressed with RS-1 and PS-1, now those were a lot of fun
You are, of course, entitled to express your opinion. I just don't think it is a particularly well-informed or credible opinion.
I haven't heard an iMod or PPAv2, but I suspect I might even agree with you if I had been there.
Personally, I wouldn't state categorically that a headphone is over-rated and sounded like "crap" unless I had extensive experience.
The L3000 can be at least as fun or more so than the RS-1 or PS-1. It is more refined than either Grado. Its bass has better details and texture and is better-integrated and balanced with the rest of the spectrum.
I usually listen at low volume levels and the L3000 performs well. It doesn't quite match the details, imaging, sense of air and separation and soundstage expansiveness of several other headphones, but it can be immensely enjoyable.
I tend to listen at higher volume level with the HD650 than any other headphone. It doesn't seem to perform as well at ultra-low or low volumes.
Quote:
I'm definitely a low level listener and finding the threshold where they're loud enough to 'open up' and yet not too loud to distort is a problem I find with these cans.
What kind of distortion?
I don't think I've ever reached a volume level where there was distortion.
Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif What kind of distortion?
I don't think I've ever reached a volume level where there was distortion.
I find that the treble becomes very strident and unbalanced vs the rest of the frequency range and the music looses coherence.
It's more of a comparative thing as I can turn up the K1000 or HE90 very high without this becoming as much of an issue.
Edit: This is on different amps and could be a function of differing setups. However I like to think that music is just a lot 'easier' and more effortless on those other headphones. The L3000 has to work some to reach a similar level.
Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif ah ... yes. that makes sense. Fing, you are just a wealth of knowledge and certainly have an impressive array of headphones and experience to support your always helpful and insightful posts.
thanks for the reply.
You're welcome and thank you. Ever since a rather poor showing of my L3000 at the UK meet last October, I've been wanting to get the best I can out of these headphones and experience what other people have been writing about them.
I have no compunction about selling a headphone if I don't think it's good enough, but I've been reluctant to let these go despite my doubts since I bought them in June.
I'm glad I held onto them as they are unique in a number of ways and are one of the better closed headphones that I feel comfortable using at work (vs bringing in an R10).
Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif in terms of value and perspective, i tend to see it this way. if the L3000 is good enough to replace my current headphones - HD650, k701, RS1 - then that is part of and increases its overall value, making its $2000+ price tag more acceptable. but if the L3000 is just going to become part of the general rotation along with other $500 headphones, then that works against its value and to me is not worth it - even if the headphone is superior in some respects to all of the others.
i wrote the above a ways back and its reasoning was always my main problem with the L3000 as well as other high priced headphones in general. but i am starting to think that the L3000 - at least for genres other than classical - may be able to replace *all* my other current dynamic headphones. since i have had the L3000, i have not stopped listening to them. they just sound better than my HD600 (bright), HD650 (dark), SR325 (unrefined) and K701 (polite). how much better is hard to say but i'm starting to think that that is not important either. if something is better, then does it really matter by how much - better is better, plain and simple. moreover, the sum of that improvement may not be subject to quantification. i believe i am starting to understand the saying "you are paying for that last 10%." the reason is because sometimes that last 10% turns out to be everything. all i can say is that i am very satisfied with my purchase and think in terms of build quality and sound reproduction the L3000 truly deserves their status as high end.
Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif i wrote the above a ways back and its reasoning was always my main problem with the L3000 as well as other high priced headphones in general. but i am starting to think that the L3000 - at least for genres other than classical - may be able to replace *all* my other current dynamic headphones. since i have had the L3000, i have not stopped listening to them. they just sound better than my HD600 (bright), HD650 (dark), SR325 (unrefined) and K701 (polite). how much better is hard to say but i'm starting to think that that is not important either. if something is better, then does it really matter by how much - better is better, plain and simple. moreover, the sum of that improvement may not be subject to quantification. i believe i am starting to understand the saying "you are paying for that last 10%." the reason is because sometimes that last 10% turns out to be everything. all i can say is that i am very satisfied with my purchase and think in terms of build quality and sound reproduction the L3000 truly deserves their status as high end.
Nice to know that you are enjoying the L3000. Another important point is that it is easier to design open headphones to sound great but it is much more difficult to get a closed headphone to sound as good as highend open dynamics let alone being better. I found myself listening to my L3000 a lot more now as they are part of my office rig where isolation and sound leakage is critical. I once listened to the Baby Orpheus system at work and had a complaint from my supervisor while my wife absolutely displease whenever I have a late night jam with the HE90.
Originally Posted by purk /img/forum/go_quote.gif What's your opinion b/w the L3000 and the HE1.2B?
that is something i look forward to. plan to get the 1.2B this weekend. will post something once i get a chance to feel the two out. but regardless of the outcome, for rock and other similar music i believe i am covered. just need something for classical and opera in particular. trying to avoid the downward spiral into the R10, but from all accounts those are the premiere headphones for that type of music. true?
we'll see. should get to hear a pair this weekend at the NY meet.
Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif but i am starting to think that the L3000 - at least for genres other than classical - may be able to replace *all* my other current dynamic headphones. since i have had the L3000, i have not stopped listening to them. they just sound better than my HD600 (bright), HD650 (dark), SR325 (unrefined) and K701 (polite).
Indeed, I found myself no longer feeling the impulse to collect headphones after owning the L3000 for a while. And since, my headphone inventory has shrunken quite a bit. Likewise, my only addition would be for classical/orchestral music, in the form of a Stax SR007mkII or 4070.
I've been going through this thread as I've been trying to understand the sonic traits of the L3000s. I've grown to become an AT Woody fan, and the L3000s are an enigma to me.
I'm absolutely in love with the signature vocal/ midrange coloration of the ATs, but what interest me is that the L3000s are quoted as a Bass Strong, Neutral Phone. This means, it's likely very different from the 3000Anvs and the ESW11ltd I own.
Would someone kindly make a comparison? (Especially to the 3000anvs)
It's not a neutral phone. The L3000 and W3000 happen to be the two headphones I have in rotation, with the former getting most of my head time.
Both are good but the L3000 has a much more physical and tangible effect to the sound while the W3000 sounds more refined and "ethereal". I mostly listen to pop/rock/vocal music and I like electric guitars, for this kind of music I think the L3000 is almost unbeatable.
To describe it simply, the L3000 is like a straightforward person that speaks clearly, while the W3000 a soft-spoken type comparatively.
It's not a neutral phone. The L3000 and W3000 happen to be the two headphones I have in rotation, with the former getting most of my head time.
Both are good but the L3000 has a much more physical and tangible effect to the sound while the W3000 sounds more refined and "ethereal". I mostly listen to pop/rock/vocal music and I like electric guitars, for this kind of music I think the L3000 is almost unbeatable.
To describe it simply, the L3000 is like a straightforward person that speaks clearly, while the W3000 a soft-spoken type comparatively.
It almost sounds like a comparison of the W3000ANVs and the Fostex 900. I'm sorry to be a bother, but I'm trying to get a sense of it's signature. Seems like it's in my "must have" list.
It's not a neutral phone. The L3000 and W3000 happen to be the two headphones I have in rotation, with the former getting most of my head time.
Both are good but the L3000 has a much more physical and tangible effect to the sound while the W3000 sounds more refined and "ethereal". I mostly listen to pop/rock/vocal music and I like electric guitars, for this kind of music I think the L3000 is almost unbeatable.
To describe it simply, the L3000 is like a straightforward person that speaks clearly, while the W3000 a soft-spoken type comparatively.
Man I'd love to hear the L3000, I've got a W1000x with L3000 pads... seeing what the L3000 pads alone did to my W1000x, I can only imagine what the headphone it self sounds like
It's not a neutral phone. The L3000 and W3000 happen to be the two headphones I have in rotation, with the former getting most of my head time.
Both are good but the L3000 has a much more physical and tangible effect to the sound while the W3000 sounds more refined and "ethereal". I mostly listen to pop/rock/vocal music and I like electric guitars, for this kind of music I think the L3000 is almost unbeatable.
To describe it simply, the L3000 is like a straightforward person that speaks clearly, while the W3000 a soft-spoken type comparatively.
This matches my impressions of the L3000 when I tried a pair for a bit. Probably the best bass of the AT headphones I've listened to, with great low end extension without being boomy like I find some of the Denons have. It's not as musical through the mid range but still has some of the AT magic, while not having as much of a rolled off treble like some other AT headphones. That might be a plus for those who don't like the mid range color that the W1000X or W3000ANV may have in some people's opinion.
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