[65535]

Quote:

 
- These were supposed to be closed headphones. I was standing next to my sister across the room playing a trance song at full volume thinking she couldn't hear it - took them off and she said she could hear every detail of the song quite easily.
- These sounds QUIET at full volume. I'm surprised at how low these sound with my volume set to max.
 

 
You have hearing loss...
 
 

I really don't see how these are better than my $80 sennheiser IEM's.. those were much louder and made the music seem alive, despite having worse quality of sound.
 

Canal phones have much lower impedance meaning they get loud fast, being directly in the ear they can produce incredibly powerful sound waves.
 
If you listen to trance/dance/house/non-music dwub dwub dwub stuff most "good" headphones aren't going to be worthwhile to you.
 

 

 

[MrTwyst]

Among other things, I use a Fiio e11 with an Apple Dock Connector to 1/8" cable (around $6 for the cable). It makes a HUGE difference. Plus, the e11 gives you 3 levels of bass EQ and a gain switch. The e11 gives you a fair amount of versatility and surprisingly clean amplification for $60.

 

[tseliottt]

Get an objective2. More powerful than the fiios, and better quality. Will be able to power anything you plug in if you want to upgrade in the future. Rivals expensive amps like the gs-1.

 

[TMRaven]

Quote:

Nah, the blue box still has a little more bass, but it's just slight. The D2000 supposedly has more bass than the D7000, and I know for sure that the D7000 has more sub bass than the M50s, but less mid bass.

For me it's more than just the mid-bass.  The M50's bass is louder from mid-bass all the way down to 50hz.  40hz and under they're about the same for me, but the Denon can move more air and give more pressure.  I think that's partially due to both its larger driver/heavier driver and the gap it has to allow for more air to flow through the driver.
 
 

 

[MyrenJobrah]

Quote:

 
You have hearing loss...
 
 

Canal phones have much lower impedance meaning they get loud fast, being directly in the ear they can produce incredibly powerful sound waves.
 
If you listen to trance/dance/house/non-music dwub dwub dwub stuff most "good" headphones aren't going to be worthwhile to you.
 

 

I based my OP off the computer sound.. from the iPhone the sound is great, loud, and crisp. No hearing loss here.
 
I see what you mean about in ear headphones though.
 
I don't listen to only trance, but I feel like it's the most "beautiful" music out there in that it feels ethereal and angelic so to speak..
 
Edit: So the best amp/dac to get would be either the E7, E10, or E11? I just want the best one under $100.. preferably between $50-75. Also, are you saying that trance/dance/house is something that cheaper headphones do better than the D2000?

 

[Croozer]

The D2000 supposedly has more bass than the D7000

When I A/Bed the two my D7K whipped my D2K throughout the spectrum.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Quote:

I based my OP off the computer sound.. from the iPhone the sound is great, loud, and crisp. No hearing loss here.
 
I see what you mean about in ear headphones though.
 
I don't listen to only trance, but I feel like it's the most "beautiful" music out there in that it feels ethereal and angelic so to speak..
 
Edit: So the best amp/dac to get would be either the E7, E10, or E11? I just want the best one under $100.. preferably between $50-75. Also, are you saying that trance/dance/house is something that cheaper headphones do better than the D2000?

I think there's something wrong with your computer setup if it can't get to ear-hurting levels . It wouldn't be uncommon to have to adjust 2-3 different volume controls to adjust volume on a computer, so I wonder if that's not what might be the issue with lack of volume.
 
It is possible that you prefer a more "lo-fi" sound. I think something like the Sony XB series might be more to your liking, although I'm surprised you found the Denon's to be so disappointing especially if they're your first decent pair of headphones. What audio system are you used to using?
 
The Denon's will be pretty picky because they have a particularly low impedance. Its likely why they sound fine out of your iPhone (depending on model though, but I believe the 4 has a very low output impedance), while sounding quite a bit different out of your computer.
 
Bass will sound best out of a competent amp, but personally I don't think it'll change as drastically as some people claim on here assuming the output impedance isn't an issue (since that has an issue with the damping factor which will have an impact on bass, as well as the frequency response issues).
 
Of course with the glut of decent quality DAC/amps available, its not like it would be a big problem to resolve. Just be sure to check the output impedance.

 

[MyrenJobrah]

Quote:

I think there's something wrong with your computer setup if it can't get to ear-hurting levels . It wouldn't be uncommon to have to adjust 2-3 different volume controls to adjust volume on a computer, so I wonder if that's not what might be the issue with lack of volume.
 
It is possible that you prefer a more "lo-fi" sound. I think something like the Sony XB series might be more to your liking, although I'm surprised you found the Denon's to be so disappointing especially if they're your first decent pair of headphones. What audio system are you used to using?
 
The Denon's will be pretty picky because they have a particularly low impedance. Its likely why they sound fine out of your iPhone (depending on model though, but I believe the 4 has a very low output impedance), while sounding quite a bit different out of your computer.
 
Bass will sound best out of a competent amp, but personally I don't think it'll change as drastically as some people claim on here assuming the output impedance isn't an issue (since that has an issue with the damping factor which will have an impact on bass, as well as the frequency response issues).
 
Of course with the glut of decent quality DAC/amps available, its not like it would be a big problem to resolve. Just be sure to check the output impedance.

I loved the sound on my iPhone, but I went ahead and bought an E10 for my computer. I was using onboard sound with no amp, I figure getting a DAC/AMP should fix my problem. The only thing I'm disappointed in regarding the headphones is that I thought it was closed.. these aren't that closed at all. Good sound though.

 

[nStyle]

These cans don't need Amp'd at all... sure a good DAC will help... but only to an extent. If you are that unsatisfied right now then I doubt spending $100 is really going to solve the problem. An amp surely would help, but only to a lesser extent than the pure sound coming out of the cans from any source.
 
I have the Essence STX (DAC/headphone AMP combo) and I don't notice a night and day difference between onboard and soundcard. Just a heads up. Not saying there isn't a difference, but yeah...
 
The D2000 definitely has more bass than the M50. It is an all around better headphone for sure.

 

[MyrenJobrah]

Quote:

These cans don't need Amp'd at all... sure a good DAC will help... but only to an extent. If you are that unsatisfied right now then I doubt spending $100 is really going to solve the problem. An amp surely would help, but only to a lesser extent than the pure sound coming out of the cans from any source.
 
I have the Essence STX (DAC/headphone AMP combo) and I don't notice a night and day difference between onboard and soundcard. Just a heads up. Not saying there isn't a difference, but yeah...
 
The D2000 definitely has more bass than the M50. It is an all around better headphone for sure.

 
I already bought the E10 though. I've been told from everyone that onboard sound isn't as good as having a soundcard or DAC.. and it makes sense to me. Why is the quality of my iPhone so much better than my computer soundwise?
 
In BF3 there's just so much noise I can't really distinguish between stuff. I hope this gets better with the E10..
 
 

 

[shapethefuture]

Quote:

 
I already bought the E10 though. I've been told from everyone that onboard sound isn't as good as having a soundcard or DAC.. and it makes sense to me. Why is the quality of my iPhone so much better than my computer soundwise?
 
In BF3 there's just so much noise I can't really distinguish between stuff. I hope this gets better with the E10..
 
 

the iphone has a better dac than your soundcard.  And the E10 will have a better dac than your iphone.  Computer companies don't care about sound, that is why Beats Audio is going to attack that area, just like they attacked iphone earbuds.  Beats audio isn't good, but compared to stock computer sound cards and earbuds, they are worlds apart.  

 

[obobskivich]

Roughly I'd agree. It won't be "worlds apart" - the Denons are super efficient and low impedance; a first generation Game Boy can take them to ear-splitting levels with ease. I am not exaggerating.
Quote:

Bass will sound best out of a competent amp, but personally I don't think it'll change as drastically as some people claim on here assuming the output impedance isn't an issue (since that has an issue with the damping factor which will have an impact on bass, as well as the frequency response issues).

An outboard DAC will not matter one bit. It will not change one thing you have complained about. An amplifier will give you more power, which will let you take things louder. It sounds like you're listening to these at absurd volumes (you state wanting them to "rattle" - that's a very bad day with something like the Denons; that requires incredibly high output, these are not cheap plastic toys that rattle and pop with normal input - I think perhaps you're too used to cheap headphones). 
 
These *are* closed headphones, but they do not provide a lot of isolation. Truly open headphones are worlds apart. There are closed headphones that offer more isolation, I would suggest Beyerdynamic or Sennheiser if this is what you want.


Quote:

I loved the sound on my iPhone, but I went ahead and bought an E10 for my computer. I was using onboard sound with no amp, I figure getting a DAC/AMP should fix my problem. The only thing I'm disappointed in regarding the headphones is that I thought it was closed.. these aren't that closed at all. Good sound though.

I agree here.


Quote:

These cans don't need Amp'd at all... sure a good DAC will help... but only to an extent. If you are that unsatisfied right now then I doubt spending $100 is really going to solve the problem. An amp surely would help, but only to a lesser extent than the pure sound coming out of the cans from any source.
 
I have the Essence STX (DAC/headphone AMP combo) and I don't notice a night and day difference between onboard and soundcard. Just a heads up. Not saying there isn't a difference, but yeah...
 
The D2000 definitely has more bass than the M50. It is an all around better headphone for sure.

I can flap my arms and insist that I'm able to take flight, and a lot of people can agree; it won't make it happen. An outboard DAC will do nothing for you, a soundcard may or may not (soundcards are more complicated; although I'm sure terms have been so conflated here that picking things back apart would be...sticky). Regarding why the iPhone works better, my suspicion is that something is set-up wrong. Again, even with garbage sources, these can get incredibly loud. It's hard to answer "better" when you're not providing us much detail. What do you mean by "there's so much noise" - what kind of noise? What isn't to your liking? I'm not trying to attack you here, just trying to get more information, to give you a more square answer. The outboard hardware may very well be addressing a problem (more likely, it's side-stepping a problem, but in doing so it will be heralded as a solution), or it may just be throwing good money after bad. Hard to say with so little information. Regarding your complaints about the sound:
 
- No soundcard, DAC, cable, whatever, will change the isolation, fit, or soundstage of a headphone.
 
- No DAC will change the output level or other characteristics (this is said with a lot of qualifications, but basically my point is, you can't fix the headphone by dumping money into up-stream components). 
 
If you want something that can produce a silly amount of bass, provide a lot of isolation, and look half-decent doing it, look at the Ultrasone PRO models (like the PRO900) or the Sony MDR-XB1000. Both should be more in-line with addressing what you described as "flaws" in your first post. 


Quote:

 
I already bought the E10 though. I've been told from everyone that onboard sound isn't as good as having a soundcard or DAC.. and it makes sense to me. Why is the quality of my iPhone so much better than my computer soundwise?
 
In BF3 there's just so much noise I can't really distinguish between stuff. I hope this gets better with the E10..
 
 

 

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

When I A/Bed the two my D7K whipped my D2K throughout the spectrum.

I would hope so.

I meant that bass QUANTITY is higher on the D2K, not quality. The D7K has as much bass as I could ever want.

 

[65535]

Pick up a Fiio E10 from Amazon knowing you can return it. Sounds to me like your computer is really letting you down if the phone sounds so much better.
 
For your own good be careful on the volume levels, it is very easy to listen to that kind of music TOO loud and not even realize it. You DON'T want to hurt your ears.

 

[TMRaven]

Obobskivich, not to belittle anything you've said, but a competent and external dac will change everything the topic creator wants in the Denon.  He's already stated that he really enjoys the Denons out of an iPhone, and it just so happens that current generation apple anything are very clean sources.  It's also quite true that a heck of a lot of sources have severe bass rolloff, which is the reason why he isn't liking the Denons out of his computer.  If he only bought a dedicated headphone amp, he'd just be amplifying an already less than audible source.  As long as the external amp/dac is able to line-out via usb or optical, he should get a much better experience.