[LukeW]

I've used the custom fit JH13 since 2009. I'm a classical musician and looking to listen to chamber music and piano solo music and some full orchestral. Would the members of the forum please help me to decide if the upgrade to custom fit Layla or another JH IE would be best for these purposes? Thanks for your guidance.
Luke

 

[bflat]

I've used the custom fit JH13 since 2009. I'm a classical musician and looking to listen to chamber music and piano solo music and some full orchestral. Would the members of the forum please help me to decide if the upgrade to custom fit Layla or another JH IE would be best for these purposes? Thanks for your guidance.
Luke

I think Angies would be better suited for your needs. You can email JH and ask them their opinion but I think they will tell you the same. Laylas were designed for mastering while Angies are more spacious and detailed.

 

[tumburu]

If you are a classical musician you will probably prefer a natural tuning, especially for chamber music, where the instruments are exposed and have to sound as close to real life as possible. Layla is not a natural sounding monitor at all; in fact it is very artificial sounding (I come from a classical background too), we can call it 'more adequate' to modern styles. It could work to some extent for some orchestral music, for giving an impression of a huge hall (somehow big and distant sounding).
 
Maybe UERR could be worth looking into.

 

[LukeW]

My instrument is piano. I'm particularly listening to piano solo (Chopin) and concertos and the aforementioned chamber music. I contacted JHAudio, and the individual in artist relations extolled the Layla, and I quote: "...I recommend the Laylas. These pieces are the absolute best on
the market. They have clarity surpassed by none .
The most frequent comment I hear when DEMOing the Laylas is "I never heard
this part of the piece before..² I usually have the person listen to a
familiar piece of music.
I think you would be blown away by these IEMs."

I took a look at the UEPRR - not quite the letters in your suggestion, but was I looking at the correct item?
If so, they are less expensive but don't have all the internals the JHA Layla has. Still, after this further information, would you feel I would get better reality and nuance from my chosen music areas using these UE's. I'm sorry to be pressing on this. It's an important decision for me. I want detail, real presence and tonal subtlety and natural sound as I'm listening for nuance and clarity to help improve my own playing.
Thank you for any further thoughts.
Luke

 

[Danz03]

I'm not so sure if Layla would be good for classical music or any other IEMs at all for that matters. To me, over the ear headphones would be more suitable. A friend of mine who does composing and orchestration for movies prefers using headphones like HD800 or Stax SR-009, to him the lack of bass isn't a big problem for classical and orchestra music. When he does his mixes, he'd use monitor speakers anyway, never headphones. However, it's best to demo them yourself, what you prefer could be very different to what someone else likes.

 

[Eroica4th]

My instrument is piano. I'm particularly listening to piano solo (Chopin) and concertos and the aforementioned chamber music. I contacted JHAudio, and the individual in artist relations extolled the Layla, and I quote: "...I recommend the Laylas. These pieces are the absolute best on
the market. They have clarity surpassed by none .
The most frequent comment I hear when DEMOing the Laylas is "I never heard
this part of the piece before..² I usually have the person listen to a
familiar piece of music.
I think you would be blown away by these IEMs."

I took a look at the UEPRR - not quite the letters in your suggestion, but was I looking at the correct item?
If so, they are less expensive but don't have all the internals the JHA Layla has. Still, after this further information, would you feel I would get better reality and nuance from my chosen music areas using these UE's. I'm sorry to be pressing on this. It's an important decision for me. I want detail, real presence and tonal subtlety and natural sound as I'm listening for nuance and clarity to help improve my own playing.
Thank you for any further thoughts.
Luke

I was going to say layla is a bad choice if it was universal. However, i see that you are going for custom, which in my opinion is the best iem for classical. Really, you will hear things you haven't heard before.

On a side note, i have heard some people complaining about universal layla showing some clipping/distortion when organ or paino is being played back.

 

[Buddhahacker]

I was going to say layla is a bad choice if it was universal. However, i see that you are going for custom, which in my opinion is the best iem for classical. Really, you will hear things you haven't heard before.

On a side note, i have heard some people complaining about universal layla showing some clipping/distortion when organ or paino is being played back.

 
I haven't listened to much organ music with my Layla but piano sound fantastic with no "clipping/distortion".  Most of my listening is devoted to classical and jazz. 

 

[Eroica4th]

I haven't listened to much organ music with my Layla but piano sound fantastic with no "clipping/distortion".  Most of my listening is devoted to classical and jazz. 

I have heard so many contrastive reviews regarding the paino/organ instruments. But i felt that it was worth mentioning them..

 

[Buddhahacker]

I have heard so many contrastive reviews regarding the paino/organ instruments. But i felt that it was worth mentioning them..

Yep.  I'm wondering if the equipment driving the Layla is  a factor in these reviews.  From my experience trying to drive them from a iPhone or even my MBP was disappointing.  I found the SQ improves dramatically when I shifted to my GO or Schiit stack. 

 

[Marat Sar]

I think there's no point in getting the Laylas at all, if you don't plan to pair them with top of the line source equipment. From mobile that would be
 
DAC: Hugo or Mojo.
Amp: Pure 2 or Continental Mono or Liquid Spark.
 
I haven't heard them paired with the Ak380 or Lotoo Paw Gold, but I can't imagine an all in one DAP doing them justice. If you pair them with a good DAC and a good amp, however, they can perform anything to near perfectin and that definitely includes piano too. I don't know, maybe the Angie or those Translucent audio 1 plus somethings or the Noble K10 are less picky, however, source-wise, and would be a better investment, unless you plan to invest in getting the perfect (for you) source for the Laylas. it also takes some trying out and personal preferance tuning. Or maybe even the Shure KSE 1500 with it's amp and a "cheaper" transport, like the ak 1000ii would be a simpler route to go. I've achieved near perfection driving the Laylas, but it's a triple-stacked monstrosity and took me huge waiting times.

 

[Eroica4th]

I think there's no point in getting the Laylas at all, if you don't plan to pair them with top of the line source equipment. From mobile that would be

DAC: Hugo or Mojo.
Amp: Pure 2 or Continental Mono or Liquid Spark.

I haven't heard them paired with the Ak380 or Lotoo Paw Gold, but I can't imagine an all in one DAP doing them justice. If you pair them with a good DAC and a good amp, however, they can perform anything to near perfectin and that definitely includes piano too. I don't know, maybe the Angie or those Translucent audio 1 plus somethings or the Noble K10 are less picky, however, source-wise, and would be a better investment unless you plan to invest in a huge source too.

What about ak380 copper plus the amp that comes with it?

 

[Marat Sar]

What about ak380 copper plus the amp that comes with it?

 
I have never tried it, you're gonna have to ask someone else. All I know is, the reviews for Mojo, Hugo, Pure 2 and Continental Dual Mono all say those devices are the best in the world at what they do. No one says that about the ak380 copper edition. What they do say is: it's insanely overpriced. And they say the amp is okay. Having heard the Laylas out of an (admittedly much lower model) ak100ii and considering how woefully dark and underdriven they were, I just can't see how the same company is able to drive them properly with a device roughly the same size, produced around the same time. For my money, AK doesn't have it in them.
 
The Lotoo PAW God -- if you can survive how ugly it looks -- is the only all in one device I've even considered. People with authority on those matters have even suggested it to me. Personally I just don't believe in single unit playesr. Until a remarkable advance in technology comes along, or Chord makes one. (Which would be the same thing). I think the little moment where AK240 gave reason to think it could be the end of stacking is done and gone, The Mojo destroyed that.

 

[bflat]

   
...Having heard the Laylas out of an (admittedly much lower model) ak100ii and considering how woefully dark and underdriven they were, I just can't see how the same company is able to drive them properly with a device roughly the same size, produced around the same time. For my money, AK doesn't have it in them.

 
This is exactly what I experienced with my former AK240 that even had the RWA mod. I am going to give the AK380 Cu and amp a try in the upcoming SF Meet, but my expectations are pretty low. The one commonality I've seen with the great sounding amps is that they are all well below 1 ohm output impedance whereas AKs are all 1 ohm in balanced mode. I would rank the following that I have owned:
 
1a - CDM - Best overall imho and the built in DAC pairs perfectly. It is >95% as good as the 2 desktop combos below
1b - Liquid Carbon (Gungnir MB DAC) - Similar sound to CDM, but wider sound stage and depth. But some of that "magic" is from the GMB.
1c - Mjolnir 2 (GMB) - yes, dead silent at low gain. Adds a little more warmth and thickness. Great from some genres but not all.
4 - Pure II+ (Mojo DAC) - Highs have a little more edge and smaller sound stage
5 - Mojo - Nicely balanced, but smallest sound stage
 
Others I've tried and don't recommend
 
AK240 (RWAK) - noted above
iPhone 6s - not too bad, but you can get a similar sound easily with $100 IEMs. Compressed and slow/boomy low end
Onkyo DP-X1 - similar to AK240 and interestingly enough same 1 ohm output impedance
WA7 - way too warm
ALO RX (2015 version) - Too peaky and thin
 
Pure speculation and educated guess:
 
AK380 CU - don't expect any drastically different than AK240
ALO Continental V5 - should be great and a good price for those that just need an amp

 

[Marat Sar]

 
1a - CDM - Best overall imho and the built in DAC pairs perfectly. It is >95% as good as the 2 desktop combos below
 

 
I seriously doubt I will ever again -- in the rest of the time afforded to me on this Earth -- have the money to afford the CDM but I imagine it is less fatiguing and has better soundstage than the Pure 2 / Mojo (with the Laylas of course). The DAC, though, the Wolfson that's built in there -- tell me, how does it compares to the Mojo? I'm very suspicious of it. I suspect it doesn't give the same level of detail and musicality. After the Mojo's custom PFGA I suspect solutions that just slap someone else's chip in there will no longer satisy me. Be it Cirrhus Logic, Wolfson, Saber, what have you. They all sound lazy, boring, blurry, artificial..
 
Am I wrong?
 
PS Regarding your AK240 RWA experience, oh boy am I glad I read head fi! If I didn't I would have gone for an AK240 or 380, for sure. It looks beautiful, the marketing material is spellbinding, it offers everything in one, a lot of the reviews say it's "the best" and JH Audio even lets them say the Siren series is especially *meant* for the AK, which is just untruthful even from the most basic technical standpoint. Not to mention I doubt Jerry Harvey invented, developed and perfected the in ear monitor --  a professional tool -- for twenty two years to coincide with the launch of a South-Korean lifestyle brand's luxury device. The two are on wildly different development paths.

 

[bflat]

   
I seriously doubt I will ever again -- in the rest of the time afforded to me on this Earth -- have the money to afford the CDM but I imagine it is less fatiguing and has better soundstage than the Pure 2 / Mojo (with the Laylas of course). The DAC, though, the Wolfson that's built in there -- tell me, how does it compares to the Mojo? I'm very suspicious of it. I suspect it doesn't give the same level of detail and musicality. After the Mojo's custom PFGA I suspect solutions that just slap someone else's chip in there will no longer satisy me. Be it Cirrhus Logic, Wolfson, Saber, what have you. They all sound lazy, boring, blurry, artificial..

 
The DAC on the CDM is implemented extremely well. I'm not sure the Wolfson DAC was ever designed for mobile because it adds a significant amount of heat. I would even say more heat than the tubes themselves. I run in both amp only and full DAC/amp mode and it is significantly cooler in amp only mode. Vinnie from RWA designed the DAC and the man knows his stuff!
 
Regarding sound, the combo just works. Highs are very detailed yet sound very natural and organic to me. Not quite, and I mean 1-2%, of the definition of the Mojo but I highly doubt I would be able to differentiate in a blind test. I think it really comes down to personal preference. Over a span of owning both Mojo and CDM for about 6 months, I kept reaching for CDM. I find CDM to be a desktop equivalent which is why I sold my Mojo and my Schiit Mjolnir 2 and Gungnir MB stack.
 
However, like you said, for $600, it's hard to not like the Mojo, but I took a deep breath and paid the huge premium to get balanced back and loving the wonderful sound stage and presentation. Mojo in comparison is really intimate which some may prefer.