[JVC steven]

castlofargh - i'm not going to reply to your next post due to the nature of your posts. I appreciate your time

 

[JVC steven]

I'll add to that, that i dont currently have the right equipment to make measurements on them and to you my claim might seem subjective, but my design is unique to me...
Technically my approach is correct!

 

[JVC steven]

Anyone who doesn't understand the science of an idea like mine should read this article:
 
http://physics.tutorvista.com/waves/sound-reflection.html
 
Quote: Sound waves travel in straight line until something interferes with their path.
 
People like Castleofargh sometimes talk first, think last.

 

[castleofargh]

  Anyone who doesn't understand the science of an idea like mine should read this article:
 
http://physics.tutorvista.com/waves/sound-reflection.html
 
Quote: Sound waves travel in straight line until something interferes with their path.
 
People like Castleofargh sometimes talk first, think last.

ahahahahahahahah
you have it all figured out. congrats.

 

[JVC steven]

 
ahahahahahahahah
you have it all figured out. congrats.

 

[Redcarmoose]

The AKG's are ( IMO) one of the finest headphones ever made. I owned the original model ( the one made in Austria). I pulled it apart last year to investigate the secret to their trademark sound signature as i decided after 5 years of use, to replace them with a newer pair. If memory serves me correct, it was very thin foam indeed. Sadly, the same quality build cannot be said for them now being made in China. Although they did fix the uncomfortable headband. It's flat now. Sometimes those rings around the earpads/drivers are actually there to enhance certain frequencies. You see it with the more pricey Denon headphones, removing my them from my Denon ah-d5000's completely alter's the trademark sound signature.

I think both of us have found a sonic purity with working with physical modifications opposed to EQ. There is actually a lot of people trying different foam combos pre and post bass mod on the AKG k series.


There is a chance that this type of personalization will continue in the future with more members trying the mods?

 

[higbvuyb]

  Think about what your saying...are you trying to tell me that your head, shoulders and external environment really makes a difference when listening to headphones?

Sorry, I don't think I explained it very well.
 
Imagine you're standing in front of a real guitarist (not a recording). The pure sound of the guitar travels towards you, but then it hits your shoulders, head, outer ear, ear canal, etc. It becomes distorted every time it hits one of these things, before it hits your eardrum. These distortions are unique to every person. However, these distortions aren't bad. You don't notice them because your brain is used to them and actually expects them. In fact, it gives your brain more information (e.g. what direction the sound is coming from).
 
If your eardrum was hypothetically removed from the rest of your body (but somehow it could still hear), it would sound wrong because the sound hitting it would lack these distortions.
 
Similarly, imagine you're standing in front of a good set of speakers in a well-designed listening room. The sound from the speakers (and room) hits your shoulders, head, ears, etc, and becomes distorted in the same way. Because your brain is expecting this distortion, the speakers sound natural, just like a real guitarist sounds natural.
 
 
Now, we get to headphones. The headphones bypass your shoulders and most of your head. They interact with your ears differently because they're now enclosed in cups. Hence you don't get the right distortions that your brain expects. You're totally correct when you say these things don't matter for headphones, but what matters is their absence. This is why headphones are usually tuned to mimic these distortions. Unfortunately because everyone's is different, different headphones will suit people differently. Yes, this is mostly above 1kHz. However, there are other effects such as air leaks, clamping pressure, etc that affect the lower frequencies too.
 

  Anyone who doesn't understand the science of an idea like mine should read this article:
 
http://physics.tutorvista.com/waves/sound-reflection.html
 
Quote: Sound waves travel in straight line until something interferes with their path.
 
People like Castleofargh sometimes talk first, think last.

 
This is true for longer wavelengths. However, at higher frequencies where the wavelength becomes similar to the size of your ear and ear canal, you get diffraction and reflection. Normally this is not a problem, but sometimes the reflected, 'indirect' sound waves can in fact be stronger than the direct ones.

 

[JVC steven]

  Sorry, I don't think I explained it very well.
 
Imagine you're standing in front of a real guitarist (not a recording). The pure sound of the guitar travels towards you, but then it hits your shoulders, head, outer ear, ear canal, etc. It becomes distorted every time it hits one of these things, before it hits your eardrum. These distortions are unique to every person. However, these distortions aren't bad. You don't notice them because your brain is used to them and actually expects them. In fact, it gives your brain more information (e.g. what direction the sound is coming from).
 
If your eardrum was hypothetically removed from the rest of your body (but somehow it could still hear), it would sound wrong because the sound hitting it would lack these distortions.
 
Similarly, imagine you're standing in front of a good set of speakers in a well-designed listening room. The sound from the speakers (and room) hits your shoulders, head, ears, etc, and becomes distorted in the same way. Because your brain is expecting this distortion, the speakers sound natural, just like a real guitarist sounds natural.
 
 
Now, we get to headphones. The headphones bypass your shoulders and most of your head. They interact with your ears differently because they're now enclosed in cups. Hence you don't get the right distortions that your brain expects. You're totally correct when you say these things don't matter for headphones, but what matters is their absence. This is why headphones are usually tuned to mimic these distortions. Unfortunately because everyone's is different, different headphones will suit people differently. Yes, this is mostly above 1kHz. However, there are other effects such as air leaks, clamping pressure, etc that affect the lower frequencies too.
 
 
This is true for longer wavelengths. However, at higher frequencies where the wavelength becomes similar to the size of your ear and ear canal, you get diffraction and reflection. Normally this is not a problem, but sometimes the reflected, 'indirect' sound waves can in fact be stronger than the direct ones.

Thank you for clearing all this up for me...i iunderstand now.

 

[JVC steven]

I think both of us have found a sonic purity with working with physical modifications opposed to EQ. There is actually a lot of people trying different foam combos pre and post bass mod on the AKG k series.


There is a chance that this type of personalization will continue in the future with more members trying the mods?

Nice...i always prefered to mod headphones as a way of manipulating the sound as opposed to digitally eqing the drivers, which (IMO) is artificialism.
I have also just finished a completely inside - out modification of my Fostex t50rp's. By that i mean a complete overhaul of the internal housing. They dont have the same sound signature anymore. They are open sounding instead of sounding veiled. Different materials definitely can play a factor in how much bass you hear, or mids or highs.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Yesterday I was listening to the k701s most of the day. It was just one of those days when everything just sounded right. As listeners and having a more than casual interest, it's almost a given that we would do all we can to achive optimal sound.

I know I should just get it over and do the bass mod on one of my two k701s but it's like destroying a classic painting?

 

[JVC steven]

Yesterday I was listening to the k701s most of the day. It was just one of those days when everything just sounded right. As listeners and having a more than casual interest, it's almost a given that we would do all we can to achive optimal sound.

I know I should just get it over and do the bass mod on one of my two k701s but it's like destroying a classic painting?

I agree, i get frustrated with the bass of my Akg. At least you have another copy of that painting if something goes wrong eh?
One thing i'd say, is that i would never mod an audeze or Sennheiser hd800 headphone. Any headphone that costs over $500...because if anything goes wrong, look at the money i'd have wasted
on a perfectly good headphone. But i love the modifiable aspect of headphones such as k702/fostex t50rp's.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I agree, i get frustrated with the bass of my Akg. At least you have another copy of that painting if something goes wrong eh?
One thing i'd say, is that i would never mod an audeze or Sennheiser hd800 headphone. Any headphone that costs over $500...because if anything goes wrong, look at the money i'd have wasted
on a perfectly good headphone. But i love the modifiable aspect of headphones such as k702/fostex t50rp's.

Maybe the best thing is to just buy a post bass mod pair. I'm not in a position to find a meet where I could hear a pair. Crazy but when you read the posts made by the people who did it, most are happy, then you read about the people who don't like it.

Actually I can live with the original signature, also the signature is a perfect example of EQ not being able to do anything much to change the bass anyway?


Days like yesterday the bass was surprising, it was like there it is, there it is, right there. Hearing perception and music are such a strange thing at times?

There have actually been times when I didn't like the signature and thought of perusing others in the AKG line as you are always reading of people being happy with some of the other models? My excuse is I have a couple other pairs of headphones so I can just leave the set-up the way it is and change to cans that maybe fit the genre or recoding better. I never EQ.


I may do the mod, still the reason I have two pairs of AKG k701s is for insurance. I have had a pair stored in a box which was opened last about five years ago.

 

[JVC steven]

Maybe the best thing is to just buy a post bass mod pair. I'm not in a position to find a meet where I could hear a pair. Crazy but when you read the posts made by the people who did it, most are happy, then you read about the people who don't like it.

Actually I can live with the original signature, also the signature is a perfect example of EQ not being able to do anything much to change the bass anyway?


Days like yesterday the bass was surprising, it was like there it is, there it is, right there. Hearing perception and music are such a strange thing at times?

There have actually been times when I didn't like the signature and thought of perusing others in the AKG line as you are always reading of people being happy with some of the other models? My excuse is I have a couple other pairs of headphones so I can just leave the set-up the way it is and change to cans that maybe fit the genre or recoding better. I never EQ.


I may do the mod, still the reason I have two pairs of AKG k701s is for insurance. I have had a pair stored in a box which was opened last about five years ago.

That is what i call a dedicated audiophile...thats amazing!
Eqing isn't very effective with K701/702's imo. In a way, they have their own personality, that doesn't like change. The more you listen to them, the more you become convinced that they are correct and all others ( headphones) are just "off". I spent 2 years from 2008 to 2010 getting used to Denon ah-d5000's....i thought they where well balanced ( despite the strong bass). How funny is that?!...lol. I begun to realise is that the Akg K702's where actually putting my ears through a training process, teaching me how music should sound. This means that when a recording has more bass, they'll sound bassy...but if a recording is bright, you'll hear it bright. It is like living with a genius who has figured it all out but whom we find difficulty in understanding..
That is what set's it apart from the rest of the headphones ( except HD800's)
These are the reasons why some people compare them to Sennheiser hd800's also...

 

[Redcarmoose]

That is what i call a dedicated audiophile...thats amazing!
Eqing isn't very effective with K701/702's imo. In a way, they have their own personality, that doesn't like change. The more you listen to them, the more you become convinced that they are correct and all others ( headphones) are just "off". I spent 2 years from 2008 to 2010 getting used to Denon ah-d5000's....i thought they where well balanced ( despite the strong bass). How funny is that?!...lol. I begun to realise is that the Akg K702's where actually putting my ears through a training process, teaching me how music should sound. This means that when a recording has more bass, they'll sound bassy...but if a recording is bright, you'll hear it bright. It is like living with a genius who has figured it all out but whom we find difficulty in understanding..
That is what set's it apart from the rest of the headphones ( except HD800's)
These are the reasons why some people compare them to Sennheiser hd800's also...

There has actually been a ton of posts about the k701 learning process. I actually posted once that I thought it took me a year to figure them out.


Because Head-Fi is so information intensive, it is thought that stuff should be researched and maybe even tried out before a purchase is made. Actually I agree to a point. I'll never forget going to my first meet and listening to 20 pairs of headphones in an afternoon. Strangely though I would have never purchased the AKG k701s if I would have heard them first. I had one pair of headphones for about six years, I was at a Guitar Center of all places and just saw the AKG k701s. I went home and found this weird place call Head-Fi, and a photo of Tyll Hertsens wearing a pair at a meet.I ordered them in 2006 or 07and right away started to try and get more equipment to get them to the place they sounded like they almost could go to?



Still they are a weird enigma here because some members write them off right away as being messed up. Those same members are not upset because they're flat, those members have collections of flat headphones. They are maybe responding to the mid-treble peak? Some don't like the maybe hole in the center of the soundstage.


I also still have days when they don't sound right? But not all that many.

Most don't like them because they feel they sound unnatural and fake? But somehow all that goes away after listening. What I'm saying is, many had bad things to say about them at first. They are also a pair of headphones that are purchased resold and repurchased again by members. Some more than 2X.

 

[JVC steven]

There has actually been a ton of posts about the k701 learning process. I actually posted once that I thought it took me a year to figure them out.


Because Head-Fi is so information intensive, it is thought that stuff should be researched and maybe even tried out before a purchase is made. Actually I agree to a point. I'll never forget going to my first meet and listening to 20 pairs of headphones in an afternoon. Strangely though I would have never purchased the AKG k701s if I would have heard them first. I had one pair of headphones for about six years, I was at a Guitar Center of all places and just saw the AKG k701s. I went home and found this weird place call Head-Fi, and a photo of Tyll Hertsens wearing a pair at a meet.I ordered them in 2006 or 07and right away started to try and get more equipment to get them to the place they sounded like they almost could go to?



Still they are a weird enigma here because some members write them off right away as being messed up. Those same members are not upset because they're flat, those members have collections of flat headphones. They are maybe responding to the mid-treble peak? Some don't like the maybe hole in the center of the soundstage.


I also still have days when they don't sound right? But not all that many.

Most don't like them because they feel they sound unnatural and fake? But somehow all that goes away after listening. What I'm saying is, many had bad things to say about them at first. They are also a pair of headphones that are purchased resold and repurchased again by members. Some more than 2X.

I have a love - hate relationship with mine. They seem to be quite consistent all the way up to 1 - 4khz then things get a little out of order:
At the end of the day, of all my headphones, it's the Akg's that i keep coming back to. That say's it all really..