[Ryan84]

Sure, I could just use two 6ft USB(2.0) cables from my Nintendo Switch & PS5 straight to my DAC, and then a 6ft Optical cable from my DAC and straight to my TV for Streaming, but ideally i wanted to have my DAC(s) away from my TV stand and beside me on my End table next to my sofa, just for convenience sake and to not have to deal with a wirey mess.

Currently, I'm using a 16.4ft USB(2.0) Active/Repeater Extension cable, connected to another 10ft USB(2.0) cable from my Switch and straight to my DAC, and the same exact method from my PS5 and to my 2nd DAC. Then, a 30ft Optical cable from my OLED TV and straight to my 3rd DAC. that's a lot of DAC's.

Anyways, I've read that USB(2.0) has a 16.5ft limitation in regards to length(Although an active cable should extend upon that), while 'modern' Optical has been said to be limited to 49ft.

Am i in the clear? Or will i be getting crappier audio due to longer cable length? I don't want to sacrifice audio quality, even if that means setting it all up in my TV stand. Somebody once told me that there won't be audio degredation since both Optical and USB are digital, you'll either here pops, drop outs or they'll stop working all together. But I've also heard otherwise. Which is it?

I haven't heard a single pop, nor have i had any drop outs. I'm just curious if the Audio quality is being compromised compared to using shorter 6ft cables instead.

 

[dunring]

Audiosciencereview measured USB cables and shorter the better. Someone at Schiit said up to 10ft should be ok. I've used 6 and 10ft and never noticed any difference or had a problem. For optical I just avoid sharp bends, and use the Amazonbasics because they're really thick and flexible. If your not getting skips or dropouts I wouldn't worry too much.

 

[Ryan84]

Audiosciencereview measured USB cables and shorter the better. Someone at Schiit said up to 10ft should be ok. I've used 6 and 10ft and never noticed any difference or had a problem. For optical I just avoid sharp bends, and use the Amazonbasics because they're really thick and flexible. If your not getting skips or dropouts I wouldn't worry too much.

The shorter the better because of reliability, as in avoiding drop outs etc? Or because longer cables beyond 10ft produce inferior audio quality? Because if the audio quality is taking any sort of hit whatsoever, i'd definitely want to go for 6-10ft and just stick the DAC in my TV stand right next to my consoles instead.

 

[574206]

I moved on from anything 'traditional' for audio-related use cases years ago. So I only use optical, power supplies that have nothing to do with Mains, solid core wiring (No RFI/EMI), etc. It's pure joy as I can listen at low volume with all the details and zero noise floor. For USB power, I only use solid core, not traditional wiring. But for USB DATA....

Just wanted to point out that there is a USB optical cable:

SlimRun™ USB 3.0 is an active optical cable system designed to connect two USB-enabled devices with high performance, low power consumption, and low cost. Using optical fiber to replace copper wire as the high-speed signal transmission medium, SlimRun can perfectly transmit USB 3.0 (5Gbps) and USB 2.0 (480Mbps) to distances up to 150 feet. Compared with traditional copper wire cables, SlimRun USB is not only longer, softer, and slimmer, but also offers better signal quality without the need for external power for USB 3.0 speeds. Compared with other optical fiber transmission solutions, SlimRun USB 3.0 is easier to use and is backwards compatible with USB 2.0, with no need for converters.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=16377

I have the shortest version and pair it with a pure USB PCB (Uptone USPCB), but you can pair it with a traditional USB cable as needed.



Here, they like to pair their uber expensive USB cables with the USB optical cable:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-631947

Not for I as I love pure neutrality, no warmness so I stick with zero 'traditional' components in my chain.

Here's the original post by romaz (former head-fi legend):

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-631854

The Music Server they are running the Monoprice USB optical cables runs close to USD40,000.

I do my gaming on a low latency, realtime kernel with a Asmedia PCI-E card so the FPGA DAC and PC are right next to each other. I don't need the extension capabilities, but the performance and zero noise. I don't use this setup for Music, only for Gaming.

I also power the 5V with Batteries and about 500 Farads of Super capacitor power:





I have since upgraded the thickness of the USB solid core power cables as this thin gauge was just an experiment not production.

Depending on your setup, the USB optical cable will likely not need extra 5V juice. But if it does, you can just use a standard traditional micro USB cable that you use for charging from a Mains source or battery pack. That USB optical 5V end will be near your gaming consoles / TV stand so should be easy to find a 5V power source.

I just prefer to always power my USB optical cable 24/7 as I already have the Infrastructure setup.

I have not seen this USB optical go back on sale for a few years, but I guess Supply Chains are improving as there's a 10% sale for the Summer. I was lucky and got mine in the low 100s. It's a bit pricey and I will likely be priced out if I was in the Market for one presently, but use cases are unique for everyone.

 

[Ryan84]

It's frustrating, because I'm always hearing different answers. Like >

Digital is digital(USB 2.0 and Optical), it either works or it doesn't. Audio degradation doesn't exist, again it either works or it doesn't OR you'll get pops or drop outs if the cable is in fact too long.

But then some people seem to think differently. lol I don't think i can spot a difference in audio quality between using just a 6ft USB cable, Vs a 16.4ft Active/repeater USB cable paired with a 10ft USB(2.0) calbe, or even Vs the 30ft Toslink/Optical cable.

 

[574206]

Besides being RFI/EMI magnets, traditional cooper wiring has distance limits. I don't remember the exact distance in feet, that's why I recommend going USB optical if you want zero sound degradation up to 150 feet. Traditional cooper will lose signal quality over distances either if it's voltage drops or USB packet drops so it's not all about Digital versus Digital or even Audio. There are USB repeaters, so if you already have one and happy with it just keep using the USB repeater.

Differences in Audio Quality depends on a pristine chain. 99% here will never get to that level and hover in the average to above average range during their entire Head-Fi Arc, so making a change here and there is likely to not result in an audible difference. 99% only implements half-measures solutions. It's difficult to be full measures pristine in this hobby unless you are a true enthusiast/purist not a consumer.

If you are using 3 G6, just stick with what is working for you (USB Repeater, etc.).

What you could do is USB optical to a USB splitter to 3 G6. There's also USB to Ethernet to USB. I would rather use USB to Ethernet to USB than a long traditional cooper wiring USB cable, but I have no experience with. My USB optical I do have experience and it's been flawless.

USB - 15 feet (passive); 95 feet (passive + active extension); 200 feet (ethernet extension)​

Passive (standard) USB cables have a maximum length of 15’. This limit can be overcome by using active USB extension cables. The active cables contain a microchip repeater that bypasses the normal 15’ limit of passive cables.


When daisy-chaining USB cables, there can be no more than 15’ of passive cable total. If you have a 10’ passive USB cable and try to attach a passive 10’ extension cord to it, the cable will not work. However, using a 5’ passive extension would work because the total amount of passive cable would only be 15’. These passive/active rules hold true for all the different types of USB cables.


An extender balun allows users to use an ethernet cable as an extension for USB. Different extenders have different maximum distance ratings but generally range somewhere from 150’ to 200’.

https://www.showmecables.com/by-category/extenders-switches-splitters/extenders/usb-extenders

So if you already have a USB repeater and happy with, just stay put. The SQ aspect will always have a weakness in the chain for Gaming, so I wouldn't worry about this too much. The USB optical will lower noise floor, so USB optical + USB splitter + USB traditional cables > USB splitter + pure USB traditional cables.

Otherwise, consider USB to Ethernet to USB to a USB splitter to 3 G6.

Anyways, Good luck. I'm building a 3000 Farad 5V Super Capacitor this month, so I need to give it my full attention as it's a dangerous task if not done right.

EDIT: There's a potential UPS worker's strike, so it might be a good idea to wrap up on USB supplies this month if needed. Otherwise, depending on supplier, you may not be able to order until 2024 if the strike hits.

 

[medon]

...
I haven't heard a single pop, nor have i had any drop outs. I'm just curious if the Audio quality is being compromised compared to using shorter 6ft cables instead.

... well if the sound IQ is virtually the same (long run cables vs. short / high quality cable) -- which is easy to check -- then why worry?

Just for fun I once checked how many feet of cable I could put between my notebook and my DAC -- there was an easily audible degradation of sound (clarity, definition) before the sound would "pass out".
I guess it all depends on sender (streamer/computer), its interface, the DAC, cable ...
No general answer possible.

 

[gregorio]

The shorter the better because of reliability, as in avoiding drop outs etc? Or because longer cables beyond 10ft produce inferior audio quality?

The first one. Longer cables can reduce audio quality but obviously only with cables that are actually carrying an audio signal. USB and other such cables are carrying digital data, not audio signals and therefore cannot affect audio quality. Longer digital cables can only affect the signal they are actually carrying, the digital data, so either you get data errors/drop outs or you don’t. The only possible exception is if you have a dodgy/faulty DAC; a longer cable is likely to pick-up more RF/EM interference which could potentially leak into the analogue side of the DAC but any decent DAC will filter/isolate this interference. This doesn’t apply to optical cables though, which are immune to RF/EM interference.

G