[lindijones]

Hi All,

all you're expertise power is needed:

I just bought the new Moondrop Dusk headphone as they have a USB-C cable with integrated DSP because I have an iPhone 15 Pro (with USB-C).
So far so good.
Unfortunately you cannot change the DSP settings inside the Moondrop cable with iOS (allegedly due to some Apple restrictions).
I had the chance to get the new Moondrop miad01 Android phone. So i am able to change the DSP settings with the Moondrop link App now.
So far so good.
The difference in the modified DSP settings are absolutely clear to distinguish (if used on iPhone and as well on the Android phone).
That makes totally sense as the settings are saved inside the DSP cable. So i can just use the saved changes also on my iPhone 15 Pro.
I use Apple Music. I also downloaded the Apple Music Android App to the Moondrop phone. Highest quality (high res if available) lossless settings on both phones.

But now i come to the question:

The Moondrop (actually the DSP cable when connected to the Moondrop miad01 phone) sounds SO MUCH BETTER. => Why is that?

Again: I use the DAC of the USB-C cable of the headphones and NOT the integrated DACs of the phone.

The difference is night and day.
The general sound signature is the same. But the sound on the Moondrop is so much more defined, precise, louder (means more dynamics).
Even the maximum volume is much higher when connected to the Moondrop.
If you set the volume level to the same it is anyway so much better on the Android phone.

=> Why is that? You know it is the same DAC+DSP+Amp used (all inside the cable).

I have some theories:

1. Better / more stable power output of the phone's USB-C output regarding voltage/current.
2. Is there some re-clocking difference going on?
3. Is the iPhone / iOS doing some bad sound processing before the output.
4. Is Moondrop doing some magic here as the phone and the headphone+dsp cable is from the same company?

Does anyone have a good explanation or even a fix (i want the iPhone to sound like the Moondrop phone ) for this?
Because the idea was to keep using my iPhone.
But right now i can't go back. The sound quality on the Moondrop miad01 (with the Dusk DSP cable) is just too good now.
(I didn't try another Android phone yet...)

Thx and kind regards!

P.S.: Some pictures attached...

 

[bigshot]

The DAC in that cable has EQ profiles built in. It probably can't access that unless the phone and headphones match.

 

[lindijones]

The DAC in that cable has EQ profiles built in. It probably can't access that unless the phone and headphones match.

I know.
But as i said. The cable-DSP works on iOS and Android. You can clearly hear the difference when you change the settings.
And it is perfectly reflected on both source devices.

 

[gregorio]

It’s not easy to know what the iPhone is doing, what is being bypassed or what the moondrop phone is doing. For example, is the iPhone applying loudness normalisation (Sound Check) but the moondrop isn’t, is the moondrop sending some profile setting to the DAC that the iPhone isn’t, as bigshot suggested? There’s quite a few possibilities here.

G

 

[lindijones]

It’s not easy to know what the iPhone is doing, what is being bypassed or what the moondrop phone is doing. For example, is the iPhone applying loudness normalisation (Sound Check) but the moondrop isn’t, is the moondrop sending some profile setting to the DAC that the iPhone isn’t, as bigshot suggested? There’s quite a few possibilities here.

G

That‘s the point.
But for audiophiles that‘s a no-go, right?
And we all know: Apple will not give us answers…

 

[gregorio]

But for audiophiles that‘s a no-go, right?

I don’t know, do you want loudness normalisation? You can turn it off if not. If it’s a profile type thing, that might be more difficult to solve if Apple doesn’t support the app but then that’s a user error effectively.

G

 

[lindijones]

I don’t know, do you want loudness normalisation? You can turn it off if not. If it’s a profile type thing, that might be more difficult to solve if Apple doesn’t support the app but then that’s a user error effectively.

G

Let‘s avoid mixing up different things.
Maybe Apple does something on their side in iOS. But as far as I know these settings only work with AirPods.
I anyway switched that all OFF.
So there shouldn‘t be any loudness compression.
And in the Moondrop DSP-cable is no compression setting.
Just PEQ.
And as i said: i‘m able to change the settings via Android app. And the setting is stored inside the DSP-cable.

 

[gregorio]

I anyway switched that all OFF.
So there shouldn‘t be any loudness compression.
And in the Moondrop DSP-cable is no compression setting.
Just PEQ.

As far as I’m aware, the iPhone doesn’t do any loudness compression, it just reduces the level of each track according to the loudness metadata but you say you have Sound Check switched off. And, although the moondrop DAC stores PEQ settings, it *might* use a default setting unless it is connected to the app. Difficult to know for sure.

G

 

[lindijones]

As far as I’m aware, the iPhone doesn’t do any loudness compression, it just reduces the level of each track according to the loudness metadata but you say you have Sound Check switched off. And, although the moondrop DAC stores PEQ settings, it *might* use a default setting unless it is connected to the app. Difficult to know for sure.

G

One question:
What exactly do you mean with „Sound Check“ in that context?
(Just to be clear that i have everything switched off.)

And yes:
I would see it in the same way like you.
Apart from a simple volume change, the sound signal should not be further affected or processed from the iOS side.
For now i would think of a power „issue“ on the iPhone.
Or a power „magic“ on the Moondrop/Android side.
To me it simply sounds like much more stable power sourcing.
Secondly i would consider some other clocking. Maybe the better internal clock of the miad01 is used? Is that technically possible?

 

[XTF1]

I don’t have Dusk, but have a few Moondrop FreeDSP cables—allegedly the same cable. Subjectively, I have not noticed any difference between my iPhone (lightning + adapter) and Android.
The FreeDSP shows up as a UAC-2 compliant audio device, supported by both iOS and Android. The DSP settings are accessible through various HID interfaces—not currently exposed to iOS app: that’s why the Moondrop app only works on Android, but the DSP settings do carry across whatever source you use.

There may be some technical differences between the iPhone 15 Pro and the MIAD01 as digital and power sources…. But before diving into these:

The difference is night and day.

Could you expand on this “night and day” difference? I suppose it’s going to be difficult to setup a blind test, but how did you come up with that conclusion?

 

[gregorio]

What exactly do you mean with „Sound Check“ in that context?

“Sound Check” is Apple’s version of Replaygain, it can be found in Apple Music settings. There is also “Reduce Loud Audio” in the “Headphone Safety” section of the “Sounds & Haptics” section of main settings, which I believe does employ a limiter (compression).

For now i would think of a power „issue“ on the iPhone.

That is also a possibility. I believe the iPhone may limit power in the EU but I’m not sure if that is only with Apple’s own dongle.

G

 

[lindijones]

“Sound Check” is Apple’s version of Replaygain, it can be found in Apple Music settings. There is also “Reduce Loud Audio” in the “Headphone Safety” section of the “Sounds & Haptics” section of main settings, which I believe does employ a limiter (compression).

That is also a possibility. I believe the iPhone may limit power in the EU but I’m not sure if that is only with Apple’s own dongle.

G

Ah ok. I got it. Thanks.
All OFF.

 

[lindijones]

I don’t have Dusk, but have a few Moondrop FreeDSP cables—allegedly the same cable. Subjectively, I have not noticed any difference between my iPhone (lightning + adapter) and Android.
The FreeDSP shows up as a UAC-2 compliant audio device, supported by both iOS and Android. The DSP settings are accessible through various HID interfaces—not currently exposed to iOS app: that’s why the Moondrop app only works on Android, but the DSP settings do carry across whatever source you use.

There may be some technical differences between the iPhone 15 Pro and the MIAD01 as digital and power sources…. But before diving into these:


Could you expand on this “night and day” difference? I suppose it’s going to be difficult to setup a blind test, but how did you come up with that conclusion?

Thx for your answer.
Just to be clear:
I also had the „normal“ aka „unbranded“ Free-DSP cable from Moondrop.
And i know it looks and feels quite similar, but:
It is not the same.

On the Dusk DSP-cable you can change the frequencies in the PEQ from 60Hz-20kHz.
The „normal“ Free-DSP cable was limited to 10kHz.

Anyway.
The information with the HID interface is very interesting. Let‘s dive deeper into that later on.

The difference „night and day“ means: i am sitting right here and changing the plug from iPhone 15 Pro to the Moondrop back and forth.
The sound on the iPhone is more dull and less resolving. Also the dynamics on the Moondrops are much better.
Clearly a difference. Totally easy also for a blind test.

(Hard to explain, right?)

 

[XTF1]

Totally easy also for a blind test.

Really? Go for it, explain your process and the results.

Do you still have the FreeDSP cable? Same night and day difference? Can you also do a blind test with that cable?

On the Dusk DSP-cable you can change the frequencies in the PEQ from 60Hz-20kHz.
The „normal“ Free-DSP cable was limited to 10kHz.

I suspect it’s an app self-imposed limit, not a HW constraint…

 

[lindijones]

Really? Go for it, explain your process and the results.

Do you still have the FreeDSP cable? Same night and day difference? Can you also do a blind test with that cable?


I suspect it’s an app self-imposed limit, not a HW constraint…

I need some assistance here for a blind test.


I don’t have the Free-DSP cable anymore. It‘s possible that it’s a software limit only.