[Nazo]

Hmm. I thought the Bubinga was supposed to be more ideal for mids. However, much like you, I'm probably looking for a warmer mid-range. "Slightly more mellow up top" sounds about right. It shouldn't take much at this point. Guess that does leave the little detail of it being a light density wood though. Hmm. (Well, if I can help it I'll be scraping together the money sooner rather than later, so I'm definitely thinking along these lines.)

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As for cable choice, I did consider the Mogami Starquad once but after talking with fellow audiophiles, most reckoned that it might be too dark for my Denon. Then someone recommended the Kimber 4TC as it has a good value/performance ratio although it was an usual choice considering its nature as a speaker cable first and foremost. It's warm cable no doubt but I'm really happy that the 4TC improved the midrange by quite a bit and made the bass punchier while not skewing overall presentation too much to the dark side. What kind of Mogami cable did you choose for your Denon anyway, Nazo?

Hmm. I would describe the Denons as being just a little bit bright themselves. To that end, a slightly dark cable seems to suit them well I thought. I would point out though that the effect is very cumulative. I ran the wires from the cups to a 6.35mm Neutrik connector and to that I can attach different cables. With the shorter Mogami cable (I'd say roughly 3ft) the sound is just about perfect, but the longer cable I made (probably closer to 10ft) for distance has a little bit too much effect I think. I've been using Canare for my other stuff and while I found it to have too harsh highs and too much bass for my tastes when directly to the Denons, I might later rig up a combo using the Canare for most of the distance and Mogami for the shorter end, lol. Wierd, but I think it might work.

Oh, and I'm using the bigger Neglex Quad, the W2534. I stripped the outer shielding and coating and used some shrink tubing to get it nice and thin versus the really thick original size, then stuck a toroid on the end with the plug. It's not quite as flexible as it should be due to the tubing being just a bit thicker than I probably should have used, but it works very well for the most part.

I may have to try that Kimber cable later on.

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Too bad it seems that this D2000 has a very narrow treble spike that I can't get rid of no matter how much modification I've done. This contributed to sibilance that rears its ugly head now although curiously, it doesn't occur all the time and only occasionally. If switching to wooden cups can fix this, I'm going to be one hell of a happy camper.

Exactly what my problem was and one of my biggest hopes with changing the sound signature with cups. Actually, I do want to make sure not to reduce the bass any further though. Between the Mogami cable and the stuffing, I have the bass right where I want it now.

To MarkL, I would ask, does the Red Ceder reduce the bass any?

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As for the stuffing, I did try it but I found that it sucked out too much bass on top of making things very bright so I removed those polyester pronto.

How much did you use though? And which kind? Too much will definitely have a strong effect, but the amount I ended up putting in was extremely thin to say the least and I used the Mountaim Mist. Actually, to be honest, after one person suggested that the extra padding soundstage fix might be related somewhat to the sibilance I tried taking that out just to see and I must admit I liked the sound better without it despite the negative effects on the soundstage (but then the Denons aren't bad even stock in this respect, just not ideal.) I used bits of the stuffing he put in there for my padding (at least I presume this is Mountain Mist since I can see no reason it would be anything else.) I noted that the stuff I took out does at least sound better than the cheap stuffing I had on hand. Here's the wierd thing though. I really can't explain it, but I'd swear that with this the sibilance decreased some tiny amount further from the stuffing. Again I emphasize the fact that I have AT MOST, the same amount as in the original mod thread and I'm quite certain that it's actually even less (I originally thought about 1/3, but now I think maybe more like 1/2 or even 2/3, but still less all the same,) so there's no way it's too much... Maybe it's just my ears being wierd again.

 

[nc8000]

While I have always been a believer in burn-in, I have never experienced this massive changes from the process. Another 20 hours with the IsoTek cd and everything just keeps improving in leaps and bounds.

 

[markl]

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To MarkL, I would ask, does the Red Ceder reduce the bass any?

Red Cedar is at one end of the spectrum of woods we offer in terms of bass. It's going to give you the maximum amount of bass volume/depth/punch possible. We damp the cups, and the mod as a rule will help control the bass greatly vs. stock. However, if someone is looking for a wood that will reduce bass volume and impact, Red Cedar is not the best choice.

 

[Nazo]

How does it compare vs the stock D2000 plastic cups? Between the Mogami cable and the very light application of stuffing, I find the bass to be right where I want it now probably. If the red cedar isn't very much more (or any) versus the stock cups then the bass should be just fine for my needs.

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Originally Posted by nc8000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif While I have always been a believer in burn-in, I have never experienced this massive changes from the process. Another 20 hours with the IsoTek cd and everything just keeps improving in leaps and bounds.

Yeah, the Denons ship with a really bad sound to them. Until they loosen up properly they definitely don't have the best sound. Just wait until around 200 or so when they begin settling a bit and start really showing what they can do. Denon has really found something nice with these headphones.

 

[qusp]

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Originally Posted by Nazo /img/forum/go_quote.gif How does it compare vs the stock D2000 plastic cups? Between the Mogami cable and the very light application of stuffing, I find the bass to be right where I want it now probably. If the red cedar isn't very much more (or any) versus the stock cups then the bass should be just fine for my needs. Yeah, the Denons ship with a really bad sound to them. Until they loosen up properly they definitely don't have the best sound. Just wait until around 200 or so when they begin settling a bit and start really showing what they can do. Denon has really found something nice with these headphones.

well I dont have red cedar, but my tasmanian blackwood cups dont increase the amount of bass, but they do increase extension and control. the blackwood is on about the same level of density as cedar, so you can expect similar results. vs the stock cups its no contest which I prefer

 

[mrarroyo]

Tanks for the response Mark, hope you get better soon. BTW, I had forgotten you do not use dynamat on the Bubing cups! Instead I thought you did not stuff them w/ padding.

 

[markl]

Initially, we said that damping was "optional" on the bubinga, depending on user taste. Since then I've found a new damping material that is lighter and less rigid than the Dynamat, but is perfect for damping a wood like bubinga that doesn't need the full strength of Dynamat itself.

 

[nc8000]

Now up to 75 hours of IsoTek burn-in plus 10-15 hours of listening and they keep improving every day although the differences are now getting subtler. The sheer presence they bring not only to elctrically amplified music (mostly rock as that was what they were speced for) but also many other larger scale works in all genres is fantastic and to my ears is about to better the L3000 I had for 4 years. My ER4 still betters them in sparkliness, crispness and brilliance and they still sound a bit recessed and unrefined with chamber works and solo voice and piano but all in all this is shaping up to being a phone I could use as my sole headphone if I had to (a thing i couldn't say for the L3000 nor quite for my ER4 however much I love it).

Keep burning in during daytime.

Also I haven't looked at the specs for D2000 but they are a lot harder to drive than anything else I have tried. Frequently I have to go beyond 12 o'clock on the volume dial on my amp where previosly with L3000/GS-1000/DT770/ER4 and other I've very rarely even approached 11 o'clock and mostly been between 9 and 10 o'clock.

 

[K3cT]

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Originally Posted by Nazo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm. I thought the Bubinga was supposed to be more ideal for mids. However, much like you, I'm probably looking for a warmer mid-range. "Slightly more mellow up top" sounds about right. It shouldn't take much at this point. Guess that does leave the little detail of it being a light density wood though. Hmm. (Well, if I can help it I'll be scraping together the money sooner rather than later, so I'm definitely thinking along these lines.)

Indeed, the tonality of the Red Cedar also intrigues me very much. I suppose you don't have worry too much about whether it's low-density or not since if worst comes to worst, you just need to damp the cups accordingly if the bass proves to be too overbearing although it's a less-than-ideal situation for me.

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Exactly what my problem was and one of my biggest hopes with changing the sound signature with cups. Actually, I do want to make sure not to reduce the bass any further though. Between the Mogami cable and the stuffing, I have the bass right where I want it now.

I found the stuffing of the earpad also contributes to this effect. Much in-line with your finding.

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How much did you use though? And which kind? Too much will definitely have a strong effect, but the amount I ended up putting in was extremely thin to say the least and I used the Mountaim Mist.

I use plain, old cotton sheets. The ones used for medical purpose and available at your local pharmacists. I couldn't find the Mountain Mist Fibreloft and I'm not going to import one just for this project.

I don't stuff the inner cups just the earpad alone. I stuffed the backside until its limit but only little to moderate ammount on the front and sides.

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Actually, to be honest, after one person suggested that the extra padding soundstage fix might be related somewhat to the sibilance I tried taking that out just to see and I must admit I liked the sound better without it despite the negative effects on the soundstage (but then the Denons aren't bad even stock in this respect, just not ideal.) I used bits of the stuffing he put in there for my padding (at least I presume this is Mountain Mist since I can see no reason it would be anything else.) I noted that the stuff I took out does at least sound better than the cheap stuffing I had on hand. Here's the wierd thing though. I really can't explain it, but I'd swear that with this the sibilance decreased some tiny amount further from the stuffing. Again I emphasize the fact that I have AT MOST, the same amount as in the original mod thread and I'm quite certain that it's actually even less (I originally thought about 1/3, but now I think maybe more like 1/2 or even 2/3, but still less all the same,) so there's no way it's too much... Maybe it's just my ears being wierd again.

Hmm... interesting. I almost couldn't tell a difference between cotton and other stuffing material. I did try a hard polyester fill once but they sounded the same to my ears. The amount of stuffing used in the pad and interestingly the diameter of the plastic cup have bigger roles on the overall sound.

I concur on your observation on the earpad stuffing though. I just played around with amount of stuffing to reach a compromise with regards to soundstage and sibilance.

 

[markl]

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To MarkL, I would ask, does the Red Ceder reduce the bass any?

The Red Cedar is at the far end of low-density/light-weight end of spectrum. It's a soft wood and as a result has a rich full tone, and will be the bassiest wood we offer. It is, though, a tad softer in the treble region than the Australian Sheoak for example, another light-weight, low-density wood. The Sheoak is a bit crisper and more focused. Based on answers to a series of questions I've developed I can help you figure out which wood is most likely to suit you best.

Again, I don't want to over or understate the difference in tone the wood type makes. It is useful to select the right type for each person's taste (a process I have down well at this point based on positive feedback received), but it isn't going to radically transform the headphone into something it isn't. The main thing is to identify whether a person is going to prefer a low-density or medium-density wood, and that's not hard to do.

If you are sensitive to cable swaps, you will be sensitive to the degree and types of shifts and changes wood can make. Some people find these large differences, but if you are one whose ears aren't sensitive enough to discern those, I doubt you will hear the change the cups make in terms of tone/timbre.

That said, I would imagine the enhanced soundstage aspect of our custom cups should be evident to anyone and easy enough to identify in a quick A/B.

 

[nc8000]

I have now reached 100 hours of IsoTek burn-in and about 15 hours of listening time and can safely say that this is a keeper. This is the headphone I have tried that on average does best with all kinds of music. The L3000 probably had a bit better control over the bottom end (but was darker), the GS-1000 had a bit better soundstage (but lacked some bottom end slam) and the ER4 has a sparklier/faster top end (but again lacked some bottom end slam, although precission and extension is very good) but as opposed to all those phones the LA2000 doesn’t really have any direct weakness and handles everything thrown at it very enjoyable. I could live with this as my only phone if I had to (plus my HF2 for the iPhone naturally) and can se it getting the majority og my headtime in the future. The balanced ER4 will still hold a very special place in my heart and for certain tings nothing I have heard can approach it.

 

[mrarroyo]

Totally agree with you nc8000, and I have compared it to the R10, all kinds of HD600/650, Grados, etc. Yeap it is a keeper.

 

[nc8000]

I have also managed to hear the R10 and based on sound I would not prefer it over the LA2000. I have now thrown just about all conceiveable types of music at the LA2000 and in no instance does it aquit itself any less than very well In some instances there seems to be a little bit of bloom from the bass that might be less than ideal but overall very nice and balanced. On thing I do notice is that I seem to need to play a lot more with the volume dial than I recal doing with any of my previous headphones when going between recordings. Anything from 9 to well above 12 with usually the larger scale works requiring the highest setting.

 

[Nazo]

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Originally Posted by nc8000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have also managed to hear the R10 and based on sound I would not prefer it over the LA2000. I have now thrown just about all conceiveable types of music at the LA2000 and in no instance does it aquit itself any less than very well In some instances there seems to be a little bit of bloom from the bass that might be less than ideal but overall very nice and balanced. On thing I do notice is that I seem to need to play a lot more with the volume dial than I recal doing with any of my previous headphones when going between recordings. Anything from 9 to well above 12 with usually the larger scale works requiring the highest setting.

Now this is the reason I love my Denons so much. They are some of the most versatile and adaptable out there. They seem to be able to work well with almost any sort of music. I'm sure that individually a better headphone can be found for each type, but, in the end, who wants to have a bunch of headphones hanging around to switch back and forth (as well as amps even)?

IMO there's something to be said for the fact that someone would dedicate so much time and effort as to actually set up a shop focused specifically on these headphones. Either way, I must admit that I'm really glad knowing that there is such a thing backing them.
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Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Red Cedar is at the far end of low-density/light-weight end of spectrum. It's a soft wood and as a result has a rich full tone, and will be the bassiest wood we offer. It is, though, a tad softer in the treble region than the Australian Sheoak for example, another light-weight, low-density wood. The Sheoak is a bit crisper and more focused. Based on answers to a series of questions I've developed I can help you figure out which wood is most likely to suit you best. ... If you are sensitive to cable swaps, you will be sensitive to the degree and types of shifts and changes wood can make. Some people find these large differences, but if you are one whose ears aren't sensitive enough to discern those, I doubt you will hear the change the cups make in terms of tone/timbre.

I see. Thanks for the info. So now I'm still leaning between the medium and the light. Well, at least I have enough info now to know what sort of thing to look for whenever I can get together the money. As you say, the difference can be small or huge or even nonexistent. As I've noted earlier, I definitely noticed the difference when switching cables, but I would hazard a guess that the Mogami has a big difference in it to begin with compared to most. That said, I'm sure I'd hear the difference (and doubtless it would probably be favorable even with a non-ideal wood just going away from the plastic and, as you say, the soundstage improvements) but I wouldn't be surprised if I tended towards the lower amounts. Still, I desperately want to get these D2000s perfect for my listening, so I will definitely have to do this when I can. (Too bad I can't use my tax refund as I initially planned. It really screwed things up for me when my hours were suddenly reduced without warning. *sigh*)


BTW, on an unrelated matter and just something I'm curious about, but, have you ever considered including the AH-D1000/1001 model in Lawton Audio? I know it's not of the same quality level as the higher models by far, but it seems to me like there might still be enough people who could benefit from being able to buy them with a mod already applied given that the D1000/1001 also needs at least a partial mod (and recabling as well, though I doubt there's any point in putting anything high end on there.) Just curious anyway. On occasion when I was needing to recommend cheap headphones to people it would have been nice if I could have pointed them to Lawton Audio.

 

[markl]

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BTW, on an unrelated matter and just something I'm curious about, but, have you ever considered including the AH-D1000/1001 model in Lawton Audio? I know it's not of the same quality level as the higher models by far, but it seems to me like there might still be enough people who could benefit from being able to buy them with a mod already applied given that the D1000/1001 also needs at least a partial mod (and recabling as well, though I doubt there's any point in putting anything high end on there.) Just curious anyway. On occasion when I was needing to recommend cheap headphones to people it would have been nice if I could have pointed them to Lawton Audio.

Nazo, I have actually mod-ed my own pair D1001 with a very light-weight damping compound. The effect was definitely positive. I would have liked to find a way to add more stuffing to the pads, but at first blush, I saw no easy way to do it and did not pursue that. The problem is you expose the delicate voice coils on D1001 when you do the mod, and possibility of damage is high enough to be of concern if you are careless. Given the amount of time and sweat and potential danger involved, I'm not sure how many people would pay $89 or so to have theirs modified given the price of the cans themselves.