[Patu]

I've been thinking to upgrade my sound card but I really don't know what sound card could be considered as an upgrade. 1212m has been in my mind but I'm not sure is there any upgrading in there. How does 1212m sound? Is it more cold or warm?

It must have optical out. Input's aren't so important. The absolute maximum price is 400EUR but preferrably under 300EUR.

Could you tell me some options and describe their sound? I would like some quite neutral or a little bit warm sound with good bass. K701 and specially SA5000 are so bright so I think that would be optimal for them.

 

[maarek99]

Probably the 1212m would be an upgrade, considering its specs. LynxTwo would be even better (?)

http://www.lynxstudio.com/lynxtwo.html

I don't know does it do optical out though. Jos löytyy hyvä niin myypä mulle Juli@

 

[Patu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by maarek99 Probably the 1212m would be an upgrade, considering its specs. LynxTwo would be even better (?) http://www.lynxstudio.com/lynxtwo.html I don't know does it do optical out though. Jos löytyy hyvä niin myypä mulle Juli@

Lynx Two is way ot of my budget. On paper 1212m is definitely better but I wanna know how it sounds.

Voinpa ehkä myydäkin jos löytyy uusi kortti.

 

[ReDVsion]

I wouldn't personally expect the 1212M to be a worthwhile upgrade to what you have now. Isn't the Juli@ a warm-sounding card? I honestly don't know of many other cards in your pricerange that might be a significant improvement, although there are only a select few even mentioned on this board...

Save cash so you can get something REALLY nice.

 

[Patu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReDVsion I wouldn't personally expect the 1212M to be a worthwhile upgrade to what you have now. Isn't the Juli@ a warm-sounding card? I honestly don't know of many other cards in your pricerange that might be a significant improvement, although there are only a select few even mentioned on this board...

Well I haven't heard many other cards so it's hard to say. How's AP192?

Quote:

Save cash so you can get something REALLY nice.

Like what? I won't buy CD-player since I have all of my music in FLAC format on hard-drive.

I tried MF X-DAC v3 and didn't hear almost any improvement. At least not worth of 730EUR.

Maybe some other DAC?

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patu Like what?

What about various USB or stand alone DACs? I love the TubeDAC+, but there's the dACK, etc. Will bump up your price, but can be found used over at Audiogon.

 

[halcyon]

Patu,

let me warn you:

If you find out that a particular headphone is too bright for you, no amount of sound card swapping, cable upgrades or DAC tweaking is going to cure it.

Sure, it may very slightly mask it, but it won't change the brightness (unless you buy a REALLY rolled-off sound card or a tube dac with really extremly warm characteristics and blooming bottom end).

I know, I've gotten rid of several pairs of headphones (Grados, Ultrasones, soon Etys), due to their brightness.

I've been through sound card, cable and even tube amp upgrades.

None of the changes really cured the brightness for me.

Just a warning. YMMV.

regards,
Halcyon

PS I could add that I'm not a strong beliver of using cables or sound cards as expensive tone controls. In the long run, I believe it's better either to get a headphone you like better with a wide variety of gear or then EQ your headphone to your liking (yes, shock! horror! EQ! You could use DEQ2496 for that, like many wiser and older users here do).

 

[ReDVsion]

First of all, halcyon is absolutely right. Soundcards and amps are good for making minor tweaks to a headphone's sound, but nothing can change a can's signature completely. I don't know if you're honestly dissatisfied with your headphones as they are judging from what you've said earlier, but it's good information to have, regardless.

As far as better sources go, the only thing I know of that isn't an external dac would probably be the Lynx L22 (2-channel version of the LynxTwo). It's like... $675, though. The RME Hammerfall is another option, but I've read a review that it wasn't nearly as good as the Lynx card (being similarly priced).

I honestly expected the Juli@ to sound very similar to the AP192, since it uses the same Via Envy chipset, but I guess it's certainly possible that it doesn't. I've only compared it to an 0404 and an AP2496, but between them all I thought the AP192 was best by a wide margin; more detail, more soundstage, more airiness, and very warm. Again, I haven't heard the Juli@, so it might not be any better than what you have.

I understand your difficulty in finding another source; I also have problems hearing significant improvement in more expensive sources over my current soundcard. While I think a lot of it has to do with diminishing returns, I'll bet a lengthy audition with a better soundcard will change my mind; I simply cannot easily hear differences when switching rapidly between two sources, unless they're just in completely different leagues.

 

[Patu]

Thanks for the replies.

AP192 has always sounded promising but as you said, I really don't know will it be any improvement over Juli@.

Now I'm beginning to love my 650s again. If I keep them I won't be needing any source upgrade. SA5000 and 650s sound just great out of Juli@ and RP5.1 but K701's harsh and edgy highs give me headache and I was hoping that I could somehow smoothen up the highs with warmer source but that might not be such a good idea after all. Otherwise they're so great headphones that those highs really make me angry.

I'd still miss the warm, smooth and fully sound of 650s and I just can't afford to keep both (K701 and 650). If those highs won't come smoother I have to let K701 go.

Isn't it weird that even SA5000 doesn't have such a disturbing highs than K701? And HF-1 didn't sound too bright either compared to K701. It must be something in my rig that does this...

 

[maarek99]

You could always...erhm...eq? The 1212m has a pretty good dsp-based eq for taming the highs.

 

[Patu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by maarek99 You could always...erhm...eq? The 1212m has a pretty good dsp-based eq for taming the highs.

Hell no. I won't touch the eq.

 

[ReDVsion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patu If those highs won't come smoother I have to let K701 go.

I hope they just need more burn-in, I was really interested in the 701. But yeah, if the highs don't become more tame, I don't think a source upgrade is the solution you need. Stick with what you have, dude.

 

[blomquist]

I see no reason why Envy boards should sound similar.. sorry, this is a Fairytale. There are so much differences on the analoge side...

 

[ReDVsion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blomquist I see no reason why Envy boards should sound similar.. sorry, this is a Fairytale. There are so much differences on the analoge side...

My mistake - I'm not sure what caused me to think so.