[MLGrado]

There are some other DACs out there that use Burr Brown chips, therefore they convert DSD to analog in a similar way as the iDSD Nano and Micro.  
 
I wanted to see if users of these DACs also reported pops and ticks when switching DSD tracks, etc.  Indeed, just a cursory google search says yes.  For instance, the Teac UD-501, which has the TI PCM1795 Dac.  A later version of the DSD1793, though according to many 'in the know' an inferior chip.  There are indeed reports of pops changing tracks and formats, especially when using DSD on the Teac.  I have also seen reports of similar pops and ticks on the Schitt Loki.  It uses an AKM chip, that according to the datasheet does NOT process DSD natively.  But, datasheets are notorious for being wrong, and sometimes outright deceptive.  It may indeed actually offer native conversion.  At least one 'expert' I have spoken with suspects that may be the case.  But the jury is out on that.  In any case, it apparently suffers from similar pops.  
 
 
Seems that indeed it is just an unwanted byproduct of DSD and DoP.  iFi has done a good job explaining the phenomenon.  iFi has a great software team, and if this can be eliminated within reasonable constraints, it will be.  But it may just be something we have to deal with.  Yeah, it is annoying.  But I would put up with small annoyances if the tradeoff is great sound.  Or, like in my case, use ASIO Native, and there are no pops at all.  
 
 
That leaves us with just the Bitpefect issue.  And I am very hopeful that iFi can work out the issue that some people are having.  If not, though, we just have to use minimum phase for a couple of rates.  Now that is not a solution, but then again, iFi didn't have to go with custom programming to enable a feature that really isn't supposed to be possible anyway.  The BitPerfect filter is like gravy, or icing on the cake.  If I can't have it, oh well.  I still have a helluva tasty cake.  But, my hopes are still up that they can make a few programming changes that will eliminate the issue completely.  

 

[john57]

According to J.River history they were aware of the problem with Pops and clicks with DSD DAC's and in some cases a burst of noise. J.River started figuring ways to get around the issue with their software back in September 2012. Even now manufactures like LH Labs still have issue with pops with DSD files when 3D sound is engaged. Nothing seems to be  perfect in reality. I relish my ability to get around the issues with every piece of gear I own and just enjoy playing my music.  In time things tend to get better.

 

[audioholik]

  Seems that indeed it is just an unwanted byproduct of DSD and DoP.  iFi has done a good job explaining the phenomenon.  iFi has a great software team, and if this can be eliminated within reasonable constraints, it will be.  But it may just be something we have to deal with.  Yeah, it is annoying.  But I would put up with small annoyances if the tradeoff is great sound.  Or, like in my case, use ASIO Native, and there are no pops at all.  

 
Using ASIO Native, instead of DoP (the culprit of pops), is a no-brainer when you're on a Windows system. 
 
Fortunately, ASIO support is now being brought to Mac OSX as well, and that should solve the 'pop' issue once and for all.

 

[audiotweaker]

   
Using ASIO Native, instead of DoP (the culprit of pops), is a no-brainer when you're on a Windows system. 
 
Fortunately, ASIO support is now being brought to Mac OSX as well, and that should solve the 'pop' issue once and for all.

 
If and only if iFi-audio produces a Mac ASIO driver for the Micro.  You keep making it sound like it is a given.  Did someone at iFi-audio tell you they will do this?

 

[LoryWiv]

  My brain loves graphs and pretty pictures.  
 
Although this isn't a pretty picture, (it tested the limits of my 'Paint' skills), I think it shows quite well the scope of the channel imbalance issue.  I have always considered it a non-issue, as it occurs in the immediate vicinity of zero volume.  If you are listening down there, as I have said before, you need to make some adjustments.  
 
 

 
Well stated, MLGrado. Anywhere over 9:00 O'clock on volume pot and I hear no channel imbalance. For the occasional source material where turbo mode is too loud over 9:00, I  downshift to standard (sorry for another automotive analogy) and up the volume .... for us relative newcomers to the high end, I can tell you that this problem was FAR worse with my last amp (iBasso Boa+). I actually am rather amazed by the degree of instrument separation and width (not so much depth or height) of soundstage of the Beethoven string quartet I am listening to right now through my old AKG 240's.... turbo mode, volume at 10:00 O'clock. Anyway, thanks for the graphic depiction which I think is spot on.

 

[GradoSound]

   
Fortunately, ASIO support is now being brought to Mac OSX as well, and that should solve the 'pop' issue once and for all.

 
This is news to me. Any details to share?

 

[audioholik]

   
If and only if iFi-audio produces a Mac ASIO driver for the Micro.  You keep making it sound like it is a given.  Did someone at iFi-audio tell you they will do this?

 
No (they neither confirmed nor denied it), but you keep making it sound like the solution to the problem doesn't exist, when it actually does exist, it only has to be implemented by more companies, including iFi.

 

[audioholik]

   
This is news to me. Any details to share?

 
http://www.exasound.com/Blog/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/155/Decibel-13--The-First-Audiophile-Player-with-Mac-OS-X-ASIO-Support.aspx

 

[john57]

What I have noticed from the press release by Decibel: With the release of OS X Apple discontinued ASIO support developed by Steinberg. It was replaced with Core Audio.  ASIO is really not a full exact stardards. It is more of a method of developing a means for the hardware to talk directly with the player software application to bypass some of the OS audio subsystem.  All ASIO driver are custom made to work with that OS level, hardware and the audio application that is written to support the ASIO driver.  Decibel and exaSound worked together and recreated the ASIO medthod to make it available again on Mac. If Apple comes out with another version of OS it may break the ASIO driver as it seems that Apple does not care much for ASIO support at this time. Each DAC manufacture will have its own developed ASIO driver to work with it. 

 

[audioholik]

  According to J.River history they were aware of the problem with Pops and clicks with DSD DAC's and in some cases a burst of noise. J.River started figuring ways to get around the issue with their software back in September 2012. 

 
Unfortunately, they failed at it and the DoP issue is still there in September 2014.
 
In the meantime, Decibel -- and two months after Decibel, another developer Signalyst/HQPlayer -- enabled Mac ASIO Native mode on their apps.

 

[Mr Creosote]

Originally Posted by roamling 

i agree with MLGrado, here is versatile product which is working to very high standards and covers a lot of use scenarios. it costs around 500 euros and was designed based on user feedback. the guys at ifi put a lot of effort in this project and deserve a lot of credit. of course there are some scenarios where this product cant be a full substitute for different use scenarios at the same time without compromises.

i learned a lot of things in the dialog with the ifi designers and engineers, i enjoy using the product and yes i have reservations about blue cables and dsd usability but that does not take away from a great product experience 

I agree with roamling.

 

[GradoSound]

   
http://www.exasound.com/Blog/tabid/74/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/155/Decibel-13--The-First-Audiophile-Player-with-Mac-OS-X-ASIO-Support.aspx

 
Thanks for the link. It looks like ASIO driver needs to be developed by DAC companies. So, if we have three different DACs from three companies we would end up with three ASIO drivers. Weird.

 

[audioholik]

   
Thanks for the link. It looks like ASIO driver needs to be developed by DAC companies. So, if we have three different DACs from three companies we would end up with three ASIO drivers. Weird.

 
And how does the situation look like with Windows? Do iFi's ASIO drivers work with other DACs?

 

[roamling]

   
And how does the situation look like with Windows? Do iFi's ASIO drivers work with other DACs?

 
I would say no, I guess it only works with the ifi and AMR devices listed on their website. I had many different USB DACs in the past and they all had their own specific Windows driver with different features and interfaces. 

 

[audioholik]

   
I would say no, I guess it only works with the ifi and AMR devices listed on their website. I had many different USB DACs in the past and they all had their own specific Windows driver with different features and interfaces. 

 
Then GradoSound's gripe about having to install a driver is a non-issue. I doubt that iFi ever received a trouble ticket from anyone just because they didn't like the idea of installing a driver for their iFi/AMR DAC, and they surely received plenty with the DoP thing.