[gr8soundz]

Goodness what a learning experience.  The additional $280 spent on these accessories was well worth it.  Hope this sharing helps some other newbie be enlightened.  

 
I went through a similar process but already knew it could make a (slight) difference just from comparing some cheap cables. $250+ later (and with bigger improvements)......sometimes we do get what we pay for.
 

 

[Beolab]

Dear iDSD Black Label fans,


Well, I'm a newbie to personal audio in the last year-and-a-half, and when I tell you all what I've discovered, you'll likely tell me I'm "late to the party".  But there's magic in the telling. 


Well here goes:  I was using my iDSD with the stock blue cable and my Beyer T5p.2 cans.  The whole system sounded pretty good--I thought.  I certainly didn't skimp on headphones and the iDSD BL is a very respectable DAC/AMP.  My listening habits are mostly listening to Youtube and ripped CD's to JRiver via my laptop.   I have pretty good ears and very good upper-mid quality home and office stereo equipment.


So I bought this little device from iFi after doing some research called the "iPurifier2" and I'm still using the stock blue cable.  After I hooked it up, OMG!  What a difference!  The sound takes the iDSD to a whole other level.  So much cleaner sound....so much more ambiance and dimension that I could flip the 3D+ off most of the time.  Best $109 I ever spent--BARGAIN.


Next up after doing some research is upgrading the USB cable.  I HATED the thought of spending $200 on a damned cable.  "You'd have to be crazy" I thought.  "Digital is digital, how much difference can there be?"  So just to prove there was no difference to myself, I ordered a Kimber Silver cable with one solid silver wire conductor for the signal and one "silver plated" conductor for the power leg (they have a cheaper model with two silver-plated conductors.)  It arrived today and hooked it up to the iDSD BL with the iPurifier2 and let it warm up for 30 minutes before listening.


Within about 10 seconds my jaw hit the floor!  What a freaking difference a good USB cable makes.  Now this Micro iDSD BL absolutely sings....it's smooth, detailed, dynamic, spacious, and refined.  This new USB cable and iPurifier2 together simply makes the iDSD a COMPLETELY different animal for the better.  The 2 items together subjectively improve the entire listening experience AT LEAST 20-25%.  I don't even need the 3D+ and X-Bass+ engaged at all now! 

My next "experiment" is that I've ordered an even higher end USB cable from MOON AUDIO called the "Silver Dragon" which has solid silver conductors on both the signal and the power legs of the USB cable.  We will see what that does for the iDSD sound experience and I'll report back to this forum with the results.


Goodness what a learning experience.  The additional $280 spent on these accessories was well worth it.  Hope this sharing helps some other newbie be enlightened.  


  


 


 

I am happy for you!

What brand/headphones are you using?

I am not going to say this because i want to spoil your happiness of your new Kimber USB cable , but when you are listening to the Kimber USB incl iPurifier 2 , then just for fun then switch to the stock Ifi blue USB cable and see if you can hear any difference, because i can bet money on that it is your brain that focus on different things each time you listen to the same track, and gets even more focused when you know that there is a new USB cable in the setup.

Just a notice and off topic:

There have been serious blind tests where a trained group of listeners have listen to a song and each ten times. During the test the scientists have told the group that they have changed something in setup, like for instance a cable , amp , cd - player or even the speakers.

The group have during the test filled in to a test blanket if they thought that the sound got worser or better in a 10 grade scale with 10 different questions to fill in.

And the result in the end of the day the scientists could distinguish a very interesting pattern from all in the test group just after the second listening to the same track, all taught they could here a significant improvement in different areas vs the first listening and so on..

What the group did not know of was that the scientists hadn't dune anything with the setup, the group had been listening to the same untouched setup with the same track 10 times in a row, but their mindset have tricked them to believe and their brains have focused on different things in the music each time the scientists have told them that they had dune something with the setup.

Some nice input that needs to be enlightened from time to time, and great to know of just..

So please go back and try and see if you hear any difference.


Have a great one!

 

[shuto77]

I am happy for you!

What brand/headphones are you using?

I am not going to say this because i want to spoil your happiness of your new Kimber USB cable , but when you are listening to the Kimber USB incl iPurifier 2 , then just for fun then switch to the stock Ifi blue USB cable and see if you can hear any difference, because i can bet money on that it is your brain that focus on different things each time you listen to the same track, and gets even more focused when you know that there is a new USB cable in the setup.

Just a notice and off topic:

There have been serious blind tests where a trained group of listeners have listen to a song and each ten times. During the test the scientists have told the group that they have changed something in setup, like for instance a cable , amp , cd - player or even the speakers.

The group have during the test filled in to a test blanket if they thought that the sound got worser or better in a 10 grade scale with 10 different questions to fill in.

And the result in the end of the day the scientists could distinguish a very interesting pattern from all in the test group just after the second listening to the same track, all taught they could here a significant improvement in different areas vs the first listening and so on..

What the group did not know of was that the scientists hadn't dune anything with the setup, the group had been listening to the same untouched setup with the same track 10 times in a row, but their mindset have tricked them to believe and their brains have focused on different things in the music each time the scientists have told them that they had dune something with the setup.

Some nice input that needs to be enlightened from time to time, and great to know of just..

So please go back and try and see if you hear any difference.


Have a great one!

In related news, several audiophile cable manufacturers have just put you on a watch list... Lol

 

[Beolab]

In related news, several audiophile cable manufacturers have just put you on a watch list... Lol

Yes most probably they have dune for a long time ago

Why not tell about the real scientifically tested truth

Back to topic

 

[Condocondor]

Dear Beolab and Shuto77,

I'm aware of these blind tests you're referring to-- I had read about them PRIOR to ordering the new silver USB cable.  Flammers rail at each other on blogs all the time over this topic--I know, I know.  This is why I was trying to prove myself wrong by ordering one of these new silver USB cables.  But I will go back to the stock blue one and A-B them.  I'm not going to put my head in the sand and close my mind.  I'd gladly like to save $200 and send the cable back for a refund--believe me.

So just doing a little metallurgical research, I discovered that if silver is the best conductor there is, is given a baseline of 100%, that copper is about 94% of that.  So 6% greater resistance in copper--and this is just in metallurgical differences.  This does NOT account for differing geometries, shielding, dielectrics, etc. differences.  Yes, I suspect I'm the trouble maker on several cable manufacturer's watch lists BTW...lol.

I'm using the Beyerdynamic T5p Second Generation as my primary cans.  I'm also using the AKG 553Pro.  Prior to the new iFi Micro iDSD BL, my DAC/AMP was an LH Labs Geekout 2A-- which also sounds much better with the above accouterments. 

 

 

[gr8soundz]

I am not going to say this because i want to spoil your happiness of your new Kimber USB cable , but when you are listening to the Kimber USB incl iPurifier 2 , then just for fun then switch to the stock Ifi blue USB cable and see if you can hear any difference, because i can bet money on that it is your brain that focus on different things each time you listen to the same track, and gets even more focused when you know that there is a new USB cable in the setup.

 
Before getting the iPurifier2, I swapped the iDSD's blue cable with a $3 Monoprice cable and also tried a high-quality Monster usb cable. Surprisingly, after swapping each multiple times, the Monoprice cable sounded slightly better.
 
Then I finally took a leap and ordered iFi's Mercury cable which beat them all. After adding the iP2 and a Jitterbug I haven't looked back.
 

 

[Condocondor]

   
Before getting the iPurifier2, I swapped the iDSD's blue cable with a $3 Monoprice cable and also tried a high-quality Monster usb cable. Surprisingly, after swapping each multiple times, the Monoprice cable sounded slightly better.
 
Then I finally took a leap and ordered iFi's Mercury cable which beat them all. After adding the iP2 and a Jitterbug I haven't looked back.
 

The Mercury cable is copper though right? The primary design element with the Mercury Cable is the separation of the power and signal legs and bullet-proof terminations right?

 

[gr8soundz]

The Mercury cable is copper though right? The primary design element with the Mercury Cable is the separation of the power and signal legs and bullet-proof terminations right?

 
Yes, plus gold plated plugs and lots of shielding. Silver is more conductive but too much silver can sound overly bright with some setups.
 
Their Gemini cable has the dual plugs. I got the shorter, single-ended Mercury cable to make it easier to connect with smaller devices that might only have one usb port. Afaik, the Gemini should sound even better but at double the cost the returns are even more diminished.
 

 

[Condocondor]

   
Yes, plus gold plated plugs and lots of shielding. Silver is more conductive but too much silver can sound overly bright with some setups.
 
Their Gemini cable has the dual plugs. I got the shorter, single-ended Mercury cable to make it easier to connect with smaller devices that might only have one usb port. Afaik, the Gemini should sound even better but at double the cost the returns are even more diminished.
 

I believe that the use of silver in a digital cable only results in more detail to my understanding.  Using silver in an analog cable translates to a brighter top end...again, from my understanding.  The silver Kimber USB cable gave me more detail across the board but not necessarily favoring the top end.  I got MUCH better bass because after using it I could simply turn my X-BASS+ switch off.  In fact I could turn the 3D+ off as well.  I mean that shocked me because with the stock blue cable--I was addicted to those switches.

 

[Brooko]

Please take the cable stuff to a new thread or put up some measurements.  I can only take so much ......

 

[GuyUnder]

USB is junk for audio. It pollutes the DAC's input clock and power network with noisy bus power from the PC. In addition, a USB receiver produces self-noise while it decodes USB streams. There are two ways to cope with it: decouple USB from the chain, or condition the USB line. The iPurifier is a conditioning device that filters out the worst noise from power bus and attempts to re-build the USB signal into as much as a pristine state as possible before sending it back out to the DAC. Noise still gets into the DAC, but it's greatly attenuated. Decoupling involves eliminating USB from the equation at some point, like network audio interfaces which also have the benefit of eliminating USB as a source of a ground loop problem (which also causes noise).
 
Those of us who have been chasing better digital audio have sunk a lot of money into the hobby. For example, I'm eagerly awaiting this thing for my audio PC. It's a USB controller with a 24MHz OCXO clock and it costs $400:
 

 
Also, try powering the iDSD Micro with a USB charging power pack and see what happens to the sound.

 

[TjPhysicist]

USB is junk for audio. It pollutes the DAC's input clock and power network with noisy bus power from the PC. In addition, a USB receiver produces self-noise while it decodes USB streams. There are two ways to cope with it: decouple USB from the chain, or condition the USB line. The iPurifier is a conditioning device that filters out the worst noise from power bus and attempts to re-build the USB signal into as much as a pristine state as possible before sending it back out to the DAC. Noise still gets into the DAC, but it's greatly attenuated. Decoupling involves eliminating USB from the equation at some point, like network audio interfaces which also have the benefit of eliminating USB as a source of a ground loop problem (which also causes noise).

Those of us who have been chasing better digital audio have sunk a lot of money into the hobby. For example, I'm eagerly awaiting this thing for my audio PC. It's a USB controller with a 24MHz OCXO clock and it costs $400:




Also, try powering the iDSD Micro with a USB charging power pack and see what happens to the sound.

Usb power via adapter + sound via spdif is bad? Is sound while plugged in bad completely? My understanding was that in eco move for example the usb just powers the dac and battery isn't engaged?

 

[GuyUnder]

These kind of devices, especially those without the budget or real estate for things like galvanic isolation and EMI filtering are highly sensitive to dirty power. Your AC mains is full of noise. The USB power bus from the PC power supply is very noisy as well. Powering it off a clean source like a battery pack or linear power supply should make a noticeable improvement.

 

[gr8soundz]

 
Also, try powering the iDSD Micro with a USB charging power pack and see what happens to the sound.

These kind of devices, especially those without the budget or real estate for things like galvanic isolation and EMI filtering are highly sensitive to dirty power. Your AC mains is full of noise. The USB power bus from the PC power supply is very noisy as well. Powering it off a clean source like a battery pack or linear power supply should make a noticeable improvement.

 
The iDSD Micro is already capable of running off it's own internal battery (a feature that's been discussed for over 2 years and confirmed to improve sound quality). Just turn it on first before connecting the usb cable.
 
Depending on the setup there may still be noise on the data side of the usb connection but the Micro can provide clean power to itself.
 

 

[TjPhysicist]

   
The iDSD Micro is already capable of running off it's own internal battery (a feature that's been discussed for over 2 years and confirmed to improve sound quality). Just turn it on first before connecting the usb cable.
 
Depending on the setup there may still be noise on the data side of the usb connection but the Micro can provide clean power to itself.
 

This has been discussed on this thread before too i think, but I just wanted to confirm that the best sound you can is running off of internal battery and using S/PDIF cable. (Think I'll end up doing that mostly and just charging when I have to. Also this matches with my experience, even with dx80 I can defenitely tell the sight difference in battery powered vs wall/hub powered). I also don't trust USB audio...bad experiences involving USB-OTG and fiio DACs have left a sour taste.
 
Also: I kept thinking my Ifi was sounding weird (mentioned a few posts back) and after hours more of burn in i've concluded it is very much to do with dirty power/data etc. (optical sounds a LOT better, and using dx80 sounds even better compared to mac). 
 
On that note: is it me or is macbook's 3.5mm optical jack just rubbish? I fail to understand how it's WORSE than USB even while powered. (very thin sounding compared to other sources/cable combos).