[johncarm]

  Does the nano iDSD measure: Good, Bad or Ugly?

 
Some of you have enquired as to how the nano iDSD measures* – under conditions similar to those by recognised industry bodies/magazines.
 
The following are our laboratory measurements of the behavior of the iFi nano iDSD using the Audio Precision System Two.
Measurements conducted                      THD                                   Comment                                                                
By iFi                                                 0.02%                                   -
By audio magazine ‘A’                            0.03% to 0.05%                   Perfectly acceptable small variance
By audio magazine ‘B’                            0.15%                                 Measurement error/different methodology?


*Notes:
i. Measurements though scientific and objective, are subject to errors and honest mistakes.
ii. There is no scientifically proven link between “better” measured performance automatically equating to better sound.
Therefore, please bear these points in mind when you read THIS and ANY other measurements article. As always, listen for yourself and let your ears be the judge. Measurements are just that, measurements.
 

Well, we have crunched through a bunch of numbers and summarised the 4 key ones most often referred to.

 
Short answer: it measures pretty well for its class. There are no numbers that are untowards.

Long answer: Please follow the link below. The in-depth blog is here:

http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/does-the-nano-idsd-measure-good-bad-or-ugly/

We hope you enjoy reading it.

Of course some of us treat the question of how it sounds as more important than how it measures, and in that regard it excels.

 

[semeniub]

I just tried something most wouldn't with their nano iDSD, and I connected an extreme USB cable (TotalDAC D1 USB cable) to my nano iDSD + iCAN combo. It was then shocking how good the nano's could sound - there was just fabulous depth and punch that you would not expect for their price range. Quite impressive!

 

[jexby]

FWIW-
if anyone wants a mint condition nano iDSD + iFi attenuators (2), my FS posting just went up in the Amplification thread.

 

[johncarm]

  I just tried something most wouldn't with their nano iDSD, and I connected an extreme USB cable (TotalDAC D1 USB cable) to my nano iDSD + iCAN combo. It was then shocking how good the nano's could sound - there was just fabulous depth and punch that you would not expect for their price range. Quite impressive!

Oh yes, the USB cable makes a big difference on the iNano. I've heard a modified Nano by K Works Audio, sold by dealer Brilliant Zen Audio, and using a cable provided by K Works totally blows away the stock cable. The K Works cable has Litz data wires, ferrites and caps to clean the power and other things.

 

[semeniub]

  Oh yes, the USB cable makes a big difference on the iNano. I've heard a modified Nano by K Works Audio, sold by dealer Brilliant Zen Audio, and using a cable provided by K Works totally blows away the stock cable. The K Works cable has Litz data wires, ferrites and caps to clean the power and other things.

It really makes me curious how far up the DAC food chain $$$ the nano iDSD can compete when fed through a really good cable.

 

[bpeng]

Here is a warning about sensitivity to static electricity in the iDSD.
 
I'm a dealer for a modified iDSD (the mod work is done by K Works Audio) and one of mine died without warning. It behaves as though it's getting power but no data from the USB port. The charging light goes on when you plug it in, and when it's unplugged and you turn it on the green light blinks. But as soon as you plug it in, the light goes out. The computer doesn't recognize the presence of any device.
 
Igor at K Works inspected all the solder joints from the USB jack to the XMOS chip and found nothing amiss. It appears that the XMOS chip has probably died.
 
We have made a couple of observations with regard to static electricity. In the stock Nano, it is sensitive to static discharge causing a reset of the unit (it will stop playing). Igor changed the internal grounding scheme so that static into the case will be discharged into the grounded shield line of the USB cable and that stopped the "reset play" problem. The second observation is that if you plug in the USB cable on the computer end first and secondly to the Nano, it offers some protection to the Nano as it will be grounded to the computer at the moment it is plugged in. I have always done the reverse with USB devices (plug cable into the device first, then into the computer).

 

[john57]

It has been my experience that DAC's can be very fickle and easy to blow out. I have three DAC's including a Sonic Frontier unit that blew when I was updating the USB driver on the computer while it was plugged in. It was a frustrating expensive experience. Any mods done to a device runs the risk of damage later. My guess is that there is is usually a USB transceiver before the XMOS chip that can give up as well. Since the Nano appears to been exposed to static discharge that could have weaken the unit. I have not run into this situation with either of my IFI DAC's and the case ground design might have been intentional set to float.  I checked my Nano and the case ground is floating in relationship to the RCA grounds as well. 

  I'm a dealer for a modified iFi Nano (the mod work is done by K Works Audio) and one of mine up and died without warning. It behaves as though it's getting power but no data from the USB port. The charging light goes on when you plug it in, and when it's unplugged and you turn it on the green light blinks. But as soon as you plug it in, the light goes out. The computer doesn't recognize the presence of any device.
 
Igor at K Works inspected all the solder joints from the USB jack to the XMOS chip and found nothing amiss. It appears that the XMOS chip has probably died.
 
Just wondering if this has occurred to anyone else.
 
Mike
 
EDIT: we wonder if static electricity did in the XMOS chip. We have made a couple of observations. In the stock Nano, it is sensitive to static discharge causing a reset of the unit (it will stop playing). Igor changed the internal grounding scheme so that static into the case will be discharged into the computer ground line of the USB cable and that stopped the "reset play" problem. The second observation is that if you plug in the USB cable on the computer end first and secondly to the Nano, it offers some protection to the Nano as it will be grounded to the computer at the moment it is plugged in. I have always done the reverse with USB devices (plug cable into the device first, then into the computer).

 

[iFi audio]

  I'm a dealer for a modified iFi Nano (the mod work is done by K Works Audio) and one of mine up and died without warning. It behaves as though it's getting power but no data from the USB port. The charging light goes on when you plug it in, and when it's unplugged and you turn it on the green light blinks. But as soon as you plug it in, the light goes out. The computer doesn't recognize the presence of any device.


 
Igor at K Works inspected all the solder joints from the USB jack to the XMOS chip and found nothing amiss. It appears that the XMOS chip has probably died.


 
Just wondering if this has occurred to anyone else.


 
Mike


 
EDIT: we wonder if static electricity did in the XMOS chip. We have made a couple of observations. In the stock Nano, it is sensitive to static discharge causing a reset of the unit (it will stop playing). Igor changed the internal grounding scheme so that static into the case will be discharged into the computer ground line of the USB cable and that stopped the "reset play" problem. The second observation is that if you plug in the USB cable on the computer end first and secondly to the Nano, it offers some protection to the Nano as it will be grounded to the computer at the moment it is plugged in. I have always done the reverse with USB devices (plug cable into the device first, then into the computer).

Hi,

 
You may have to send the unit to us for inspection.

 
Please open a support ticket here:
http://support.ifi-audio.com/

 
It goes without saying that the warranty has been invalidated - because of the obvious modifications.

 
Like any normal electronic product, the nano PCB is sensitive to static electricity. Performing modifications without suitable anti-static precautions may damage/degrade parts which may fail later.

 
As there is very little that can be sensibly modified with any real improvement in sound quality over the stock unit we strongly advise against any such modifications.

 
Hacking/jumping circuit traces etc is strongly advised against.

 
This is a machine precision-soldered product on a minute PCB. Hand-soldering unfortunately runs a greater risk of damage and the parts quality is already up there - as you will have seen on the Crowd-Design thread for the micro iDSD. And of course by listening to the nano iDSD, it punches well above its class.

 
Hope this clarifies.

 
Thanks.

 

[bpeng]

iFi,
 
Let me make clear that we think the iDSD is a wonderful product, with stunning sound for the price.
 
We do understand that mods voids warranties, and we offer support ourselves on all modded units, so our customers can be assured of that.
 
What you are saying applies to experimenters, but Igor is a seasoned designer who has performed hundreds of custom modifications and only ever improved the quality and robustness of the product. Taking precautions against static discharge while working is of course one of the more elementary and obvious things he does. He thoroughly studies the purpose of every component and circuit before undertaking any changes. The affected unit worked brilliantly for some time before the problem occurred. The exposure to static came after the unit was in a shielded box but still using the original grounding scheme, not while on the workbench and on a static dissipative mat. The fix was applied after this problem came to light during burn-in.
 
Regards,
Mike

 

[iFi audio]

  iFi,

 
First, K Works and I offer a warranty on all modded units, so our customers can be assured of that.

 
What you are saying about mods applies to hobbyists and amateurs, but Igor at K Works is a world-class designer and skilled technician who has performed hundreds of custom modifications and has only ever improved the circuit quality and reliability. Precaution against static discharge while working is an elementary point.

 
The iDSD is truly a great product that punches above its price level, and that's precisely why Igor chose it to modify. His techniques included things that don't adapt themselves to production lines and require precision hand work, such as the application of damping materials and ERS paper (carbon-fiber EFI shielding and absorption material). Also, while the parts in the iDSD are of high quality, there is no single capacitor of just about any price which can function as well as a carefully chosen bypass combination.

 
Mike

 
Hi,
 
Thanks for your comment and background on Igor - much appreciated.
 
We cannot comment on the working practices during modification. We merely point out that static damage may cause a delayed failure and that they must be observed.
 
The XMOS sub-system used in the iDSD nano has an excellent reliability record. Quite a few have been sold so we know this stat quite well!
 
We have no particular comments on the modifications, except one point:
'there is no single capacitor of just about any price which can function as well as a carefully chosen bypass combination.'
 
At AMR/iFi we are well aware of this and we therefore incorporate bypassing combinations that are tuned on a network analyser and incorporate the actual PCB and incorporate part of the bypassing capacitance into the PCB.
 
Adding any additional parts to this system at the very best has no negative impact. Changing for example the electrolytic capacitors which have a deliberately selected ESR to lower impedance will change the correct damping for the circuit and may lead to resonance problems at RF.
 
Without a full PCB redesign using many more layers to improve the "built-in" capacitance it is simply not possible to further improve. Without having full access to the design specific of each and every capacitor in the design (including those build into the PCB design) any change may make thing worse more often than better.
 
We design and manufacture from the ground-up. iFi is owned by Abbingdon Music Reseach - so there is some quite serious industrial design going on and if you have a moment and do not mind, please take a look at the Crowd-Designed thread
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-measurements-of-the-nano-idsd-for-a-bit-of-fun-page-119
 
and that should re-assure you and our customers that we do go to quite extremes.
 
We hope this sheds more light on why and how we do what we do and why our position is what it is.
 
Thanks. 

 

 

[bpeng]

 
 
Hi,
 
Thanks for your comment and background on Igor - much appreciated.
 
We cannot comment on the working practices during modification. We merely point out that static damage may cause a delayed failure and that they must be observed.
 
The XMOS sub-system used in the iDSD nano has an excellent reliability record. Quite a few have been sold so we know this stat quite well!
 
We have no particular comments on the modifications, except one point:
'there is no single capacitor of just about any price which can function as well as a carefully chosen bypass combination.'
 
At AMR/iFi we are well aware of this and we therefore incorporate bypassing combinations that are tuned on a network analyser and incorporate the actual PCB and incorporate part of the bypassing capacitance into the PCB.
 
Adding any additional parts to this system at the very best has no negative impact. Changing for example the electrolytic capacitors which have a deliberately selected ESR to lower impedance will change the correct damping for the circuit and may lead to resonance problems at RF.
 
Without a full PCB redesign using many more layers to improve the "built-in" capacitance it is simply not possible to further improve. Without having full access to the design specific of each and every capacitor in the design (including those build into the PCB design) any change may make thing worse more often than better.
 
We design and manufacture from the ground-up. iFi is owned by Abbingdon Music Reseach - so there is some quite serious industrial design going on and if you have a moment and do not mind, please take a look at the Crowd-Designed thread
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-measurements-of-the-nano-idsd-for-a-bit-of-fun-page-119
 
and that should re-assure you and our customers that we do go to quite extremes.
 
We hope this sheds more light on why and how we do what we do and why our position is what it is.
 
Thanks. 

 

 
I'm not surprised you go to these lengths because the stock iDSD is truly a great product.
 
Mike

 

[iFi audio]

 
 
I'm not surprised you go to these lengths because the stock iDSD is truly a great product.

 
Mike

Thanks Mike,
 
Really appreciated.
 
If you are at RMAF by any chance, you are most welcome by the iFi table in the centre opposite Audeze.
 
One or two reps will be there.

 

[johncarm]

I can testify that the K Works modded iDSD takes it far to the next level. I have a stock iDSD and I heard the K Works mod at Mike's place. The setup wasn't the same so I can't wait to borrow a modded iDSD and try it with my setup, but judging from what I've heard I would say the mod sounds close to or better than my Auralic Vega. And that's for 1/3 the price. The stock unit is very good too but doesn't quite compete with multi-thousand dollar DACs like the mod does, and the mod is so small too, barely larger than the stock iDSD. Still a portable unit.

 

[shaolin95]

Hi all!
I was wondering how you think the Nano iDSD compares to the FiiO E18.
I sold my FiiO and was going to buy it again but this Nano iDSD caught my eye. I will be using with an Android phone.
Do you think it will improve at all over the FiiO or do I need to save for the Micro iDSD to get a real jump in quality?

 

[SubSTI]

Strange thing just happened:
Playing the Nano on my laptop via battery (turned it on before attaching to USB)
Suddenly stopped playing after a couple of hours
I assume the battery was drained and wouldn't start charging automatically, but the lights were flashing red/white
I turned it off and reattached to USB
Blue light comes up (charging)
Turned it on again and put the music back on, light turns green and yellow, corresponding the sample rate, but no sound via headphone or line-out.....
What could be the problem here?
 
---Update---
After keeping it on charge for half an hour or so the sound came back as well. Strange behavior however...