I am glad I switched from headphones to speakers.
May 1, 2004 at 1:59 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 69

Hajime

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After switching from headphones to speakers I have been enjoying music a lot more. When I owned a headphone setup I found it a pain to sit in one place, have to keep from moving my head, or even have to deal with that cable dragging after me. Annoyances such as that made me hesitate when it came to listening to music. However, the only annoyance with my speaker setup is that--oh--wait...there is none! Not only that but my speakers give me a sense of realism and depth I headphones just can't produce due to their size limitations and the fact they're so close to your ear.

I have no idea where the thought that headphones costing $400 match speakers costing tens of thousands of dollars. Yes, detail-wise headphones can match some very good speakers. Headphones also have an advantage by giving a great sense of intimacy. However, speakers give you spaciousness, speakers give you a sense of realism, speakers give you REAL visceral impact. I shake when a good bass note plays, and it's well-balanced, well-integrated bass! It sounds natural! Instead of being unsatisfied and thinking, "What can I upgrade to?" I can focus on the music and be satisfied and drawn in. This is why I love speakers, and why I will stick with speakers as long as I am able.

My system:
Meridian 508.20 CD player --> Sophia EL34 amplifier --> ATC SCM-7 speakers.

A good two-channel speaker system is a beautiful thing.
 
May 1, 2004 at 2:10 AM Post #2 of 69
I'm glad for you Hajime, I've never really been entranced by headphones and always liked speakers better, but for apartment dwellers, headphones are the only way, unless they have like quiet music. I'm currently building a new system (literally, I have to build the boxes still...next week) and it's going to rip. Dual (drivers, that is) Tang-Band W3-879S 3" main speakers, Alpine Type-R 10" subwoofer...yeah
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May 1, 2004 at 2:10 AM Post #3 of 69
I agree
I will only use my headphone setup when I can't play my system
basically it's an alternate but...
for the most part it's cost ratio is usually alot better

however... i like my martin logans lots, and w/ the hgs 18 velodyne... talk about visceral bass
 
May 1, 2004 at 8:13 AM Post #5 of 69
My speaker system is geared towards home theater. Since I don't own a home yet, it is pointless for me to delve further into speakers, as the room acoustics are just as important. With headphones, at least the "acoustics "are the same no matter where I am.

Plus, I listen to music when I am working at my computer, often til the wee hours, so blasting speakers at 3am is not possible. Also, since my computer desks are usually up against a wall, proper speaker placement is impossible.

-Ed
 
May 1, 2004 at 11:29 AM Post #6 of 69
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hajime
A good two-channel speaker system is a beautiful thing.


It is Hajime.... especially a high-end one like the setup that you have there. But here's the kicker, as good as speakers are there times when you have to be reasonable to others around you and revert back to headphones to keep the peace. Such as late at night.

I'm currently listening to the Eagles on vinyl at the moment and have it turned up a little and it's great but later on i'll almost definitely be listening with cans.


I think it a little unfair to try and compare Speakers and Phones. They provide two completely different listening experiences and as such they should be taken on their merits.

I'm happy that you're enjoying your new setup. I've heard a lot of good things about the ATC monitors. Just don't limit your listening experiences by turning your back on phones.

Stay cool
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May 1, 2004 at 11:41 AM Post #7 of 69
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hajime
After switching from headphones to speakers I have been enjoying music a lot more. When I owned a headphone setup I found it a pain to sit in one place, have to keep from moving my head, or even have to deal with that cable dragging after me. Annoyances such as that made me hesitate when it came to listening to music. However, the only annoyance with my speaker setup is that--oh--wait...there is none! Not only that but my speakers give me a sense of realism and depth I headphones just can't produce due to their size limitations and the fact they're so close to your ear.

I have no idea where the thought that headphones costing $400 match speakers costing tens of thousands of dollars. Yes, detail-wise headphones can match some very good speakers. Headphones also have an advantage by giving a great sense of intimacy. However, speakers give you spaciousness, speakers give you a sense of realism, speakers give you REAL visceral impact. I shake when a good bass note plays, and it's well-balanced, well-integrated bass! It sounds natural! Instead of being unsatisfied and thinking, "What can I upgrade to?" I can focus on the music and be satisfied and drawn in. This is why I love speakers, and why I will stick with speakers as long as I am able.

My system:
Meridian 508.20 CD player --> Sophia EL34 amplifier --> ATC SCM-7 speakers.

A good two-channel speaker system is a beautiful thing.



I am sooooooo jealous! I got spend last sunday in front of a speaker system for the first time in awhile. The only way to fly. Congrats on your happiness.
 
May 1, 2004 at 11:49 AM Post #8 of 69
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hajime
I have no idea where the thought that headphones costing $400 match speakers costing tens of thousands of dollars.


Hi, Hajime... please tell me which $400 (or even $1000 - 1200) speakers match the quality of high end headphones like Sennheiser HD600 / 650 or Audio Technica ATH-W1000, or Grado RS225 / 325 / RS1. It is a serious question, I really would like to get a list of suggestions!
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May 1, 2004 at 1:19 PM Post #9 of 69
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood
My speaker system is geared towards home theater. Since I don't own a home yet, it is pointless for me to delve further into speakers, as the room acoustics are just as important. With headphones, at least the "acoustics "are the same no matter where I am.

Plus, I listen to music when I am working at my computer, often til the wee hours, so blasting speakers at 3am is not possible. Also, since my computer desks are usually up against a wall, proper speaker placement is impossible.

-Ed



Yep, we're the same here, Ed. I just don't have time to spend hours listening to music alone. I listen whilst I'm working in the evening or surfing here.
One of the "problems" with Spain is this midday siesta. You work from 9 am to 14.00, then break for 3 1/2 hours
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until 17.30 and then work through 'til 20-21.00
Then I get home and do some reading and surfing and abit more work. During my home time is when I get to listen to my music...
Lately I've had a bit of time off and so it's not been so stressful but I'm about to enter that room again..
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May 1, 2004 at 3:05 PM Post #10 of 69
Traitor
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But seriously, glad you've found happiness.
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For your can situation, to improve happiness, you need an extension cord. Seriously. And a damn good one. You have no idea how a nice extension cord makes your can experience absolutely wonderful. No sitting in one spot. No concerns about pulling and stuff. If I didn't have my 15N on my system I just...couldn't listen to it. It would be a nightmare.

In my system's previous position in my home, thanks to the extension cable, I could reach every corner of my living space (I live in a 'very' large studio). Every corner. Bathroom, kitchen, everywhere. It was so cool. (Now, in it's new location, it's about 5 feet too short to reach the very furthest locations).

As for comparisons, I guess it's a question of what you are looking for and what you are comparing it to. The comparison figures thrown about are for the total cost of the front end system - transducers and amp system. For instance, since I sold B&W, Celestion, ITC, M&K, (starting back from when they actually made great stuff) Infinity, DCM, Mission, Polk, Bose, Pinnicle, AR, Paradigm and ProAc, and had a coworker who started his own high end shop and who sells Martin-Logan, Wilson Audio and many others (just to name the speaker lines, I won't go into the electronics here). I've heard quite a lot, and actually spent time with the stuff not just an 'audition'.

I kick myself, seriously, for not buying myself when I had the chance one of these: B&W 802 Matrix 3's, Celestion 6000 system, B&W Matrix 2's, (maybe) ProAc Super Tablettes, some Martin-Logans, a few KEF systems or an ITC 1/4 system. I very, very much like all those (I guess I can still buy the Logans at cost, if I wish). I won't go into the Wilson stuff - they are fantastic but second mortgages for audio equipment gives me hives!
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As all know I am using Stax now. Those speakers are some of the only ones, in my personal experience, that actually make me happy listening to them and give the Stax a run for their money in terms of detail, transparency and midrange realism. 802's would be my, questionable, favorite. 802's, dealer cost, was about the same dealer price as my Lambda Pro / SRA-14S system, now that I think about it. But...only the speakers. You'll still need an amp and a preamp to drive / control it. The 14S is a true multifunction preamp and headphone amp in one; it therefore kills two birds with one stone.

In order to get the level of detail out of the speakers, good high end speakers, that they are truly capable of you'll have to spend AT LEAST 1/2 again for the amp alone. Figure much more, if you are truly being realistic. Then the preamp. So a $3500 speaker system needs a, say $2000 amp plus a $1300 preamp just to get near the resolution that they are capable of, not even to their total potential. The only times I heard those speakers I've mentioned truly driven to their resolution "potential" was a few times - once hooked up (we borrowed it) to a $10,000 Celestion XX and the other time to the (I think it was $3000) Electrocompaniet Signature 1. The Sig 1 did the smaller speakers resolution justice, but not "powerful". The XX had resolution and power to absolutely spare, and was the only time I've heard 802's, in my experience, sound like that (drool...) (oh, my gawd).

(I'm sticking to a certain generation here) The Perreaux 3150 had the power for the 802's but not the resolution (a bit grainy on top. OK, more than a "bit" but not fatal). A few other system had one or another thing going for it, power or subtlety, but almost never both at the same time. I would have settled for one of those systems, figure about $3000 total for amp / preamp combo.

So, add speakers and amp / preamp together. MUCH more expensive than a super-high quality can setup, in total...if resolution and detail is what you are after. If you are looking for power or "spaciousness", the ability to bring the recording space to you, speakers win. Can listening is something different than speaker listening, and is therefore an acquired taste, a learning experience, and something entirely different. I mentioned it before, for me, cans bring me into the recording space, while speakers bring the recording space to me. Different worlds, same solar system. Let's also take this time to mention why I bought into an expensive can system - space. Speakers, if not set up properly inside a compatible space, can sound horrible, doing the speakers themselves no justice. My living spaces have never been truly compatible with the larger systems (like 802's (sob
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)) so cans were, by far, my best bet. Thank (insert something here) for them.

Maybe a truly high-end can system can be a wonderful addition to your highly enjoyable two channel speaker system. But as much as speakers can be high resolution, or spacicous, or powerful, so can cans, in their own way so you must choose that as a requirement for the can system. Not just one factor. They are out there, when coupled to a complete, "can" system, but can be hard to find.

Don't give up, dude! The membership card is still good!
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May 1, 2004 at 3:49 PM Post #11 of 69
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hajime
When I owned a headphone setup I found it a pain to sit in one place, have to keep from moving my head

However, the only annoyance with my speaker setup is that--oh--wait...there is none! .



I prefer my speakers as well (ATC as well, SCM12L), but there is one area where I like headphones more...laying down on the sofa or bed.
biggrin.gif


And I find a related disadvantage to great speakers. The soundstage is so fantastic and seductive that I am made into a prisoner forced to sit in a particular spot. I can suffer "sitters fatigue". I might need a Lazyboy recliner? I never tried one with speakers.
 
May 1, 2004 at 4:59 PM Post #12 of 69
Speakers will always be better compared to headphones when it comes to sound stage & bass impact. But sound quality wise, I prefer my current headphone rig compared to my Polk Audio LSI home theater system. Costs much less too
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May 1, 2004 at 5:45 PM Post #13 of 69
[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth
I prefer my speakers as well (ATC as well, SCM12L), but there is one area where I like headphones more...laying down on the sofa or bed.
biggrin.gif


And I find a related disadvantage to great speakers. The soundstage is so fantastic and seductive that I am made into a prisoner forced to sit in a particular spot. I can suffer "sitters fatigue". I might need a Lazyboy recliner? I never tried one with speakers.



[/size]Eye,

I'm able to lay down on my bed when I listen to speakers. In fact, my bed is the best place to listen. I disassembled my bed and I now sleep on a mattress on the floor in front of my speakers.

Picture%20202.jpg

[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally Posted by greenhorn
Hi, Hajime... please tell me which $400 (or even $1000 - 1200) speakers match the quality of high end headphones like Sennheiser HD600 / 650 or Audio Technica ATH-W1000, or Grado RS225 / 325 / RS1. It is a serious question, I really would like to get a list of suggestions!
biggrin.gif



[/size]Hi there,

The speakers I listened to were the ATCs and Magnepan MMG's. I really like the sound of both. I went with the ATCs because they're small enough to fit in my room. I also looked (but didn't listen to) at Omega loudspeakers. Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake
In order to get the level of detail out of the speakers, good high end speakers, that they are truly capable of you'll have to spend AT LEAST 1/2 again for the amp alone. Figure much more, if you are truly being realistic.


Snake,

My speakers cost ~$850 and my amp costs around $1495. I'm hoping to switch to seperates some time in the future.
 
May 1, 2004 at 6:02 PM Post #14 of 69
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hajime
-SNIP-
It sounds natural!
-SNIP-
A good two-channel speaker system is a beautiful thing.



Hajime,
I am with you buddy. I do love my headphones but my stereo systems get used 95% of the time over headphones. The 5% that I do use headphones is still a wonderful experience.

"Natural" describes speaker listening very well. I have many speakers from cheap vintage Yamaha speakers to Carver Amazing Platinum’s. With all of my expensive headphone and speaker gear it is funny that I most often listen to the vintage Yamaha speakers the most.
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