[ag8908]

Originally Posted by elmoe /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If they spent big bucks on DAC/Amps for their HD800s, chances are they would disagree that your cheap chinese DAC + Yamaha receiver combo would achieve the level of sound quality they get.

 
Exactly.
 
And this is not a cheap DAC at all. Open that youtube I linked earlier and tell me if you hear bass at 20hz with your DAC. I bet you don't. I couldn't with any prior DAC but can with this DAC. This is putting out amazing sub-bass into the HD800. It's also got great detail/treble/dynamics/spatials. I haven't heard a $1,000 DAC but I would be curious to see how it ranks. I'm relistening to all my songs and enjoying each one of them. I know it beats that HifimeDIY ESS9023 DAC that everyone loves.
 
Whether spending thousands extra will get me something better, I don't know, but I don't really care because it still won't sound as good as a speaker, and I'm happy with my headphone setup and this was $80 very well spent.

 

[lin0003]

I can hear 2ohz with the DAC in the UHA760 which isn't very good. 

 

[ag8908]

  I can hear 2ohz with the DAC in the UHA760 which isn't very good. 

This site says that's a $439 dac. http://www.leckertonaudio.com/products/uha760/

 

[lin0003]

It's mainly an amp with a rather mediocre DAC. 

 

[ag8908]

That site claims it has the CS4398, which is the same chip in these expensive DACs http://www.alldacinfo.com/?tag=cs4398/

 

[lin0003]

  That site claims it has the CS4398, which is the same chip in these expensive DACs http://www.alldacinfo.com/?tag=cs4398/

The implementation matters much more than what chip is used. I have a feeling some of the ES9018 DACs from China won't sound that good at all. 

 

[ab initio]

   
Exactly.
 
And this is not a cheap DAC at all. Open that youtube I linked earlier and tell me if you hear bass at 20hz with your DAC. I bet you don't. I couldn't with any prior DAC but can with this DAC. This is putting out amazing sub-bass into the HD800
 

I'm going to invoke Occum's Razor: You couldn't hear 20Hz from any of your previous DAC's, but you hear something from this one.... it is far more likely that this DAC is exhibiting distortion and you're hearing harmonics.
 
DAC's don't have to drive a lot of power to send a voltage signal to the high impedance inputs of an amplifier, so it's quite easy for DACs to have better low end extension that power amplifiers.
 
Cheers

 

[ag8908]

  I'm going to invoke Occum's Razor: You couldn't hear 20Hz from any of your previous DAC's, but you hear something from this one.... it is far more likely that this DAC is exhibiting distortion and you're hearing harmonics.
 
DAC's don't have to drive a lot of power to send a voltage signal to the high impedance inputs of an amplifier, so it's quite easy for DACs to have better low end extension that power amplifiers.
 
Cheers

 
So is it putting out sub 30hz bass or not? First you say it's not and it's distortion (funny the distortion only started when the video started) and then you say it's really easy to output sub bass.
 
Edit: Actually, you didn't hear it so you wouldn't know. Never mind.

 

[music_man]

all I can say is you get what you pay for. some Chinese stuff is actually very good but it is more money. on the other hand everything costs nothing in china. just beware of what you are actually getting. I would rather spend 2 grand and be happy than lose $400 or whatever. some of this stuff is very good though. the problem is for most people to know what exactly they are looking at. at the very high end I do not think there is Chinese equivalents. go find me a msb diamond dac iv select just like the real thing for even 5 grand. if you want a $1,500 dac for $500 I agree that is possibly if you know what you are looking at. I would say going this route is not for the uninitiated which is mostly the audience attracted to these probably. on the other hand you could luck out. I like to stick to name brands for the r&d even if it is assembled in china. which is fine with me. of course as mentioned earlier many of these can actually in fact be name brand dacs minus the name plate. sketchy laws about that in china. in fact they love piracy. or slipping a companies contracted item out the back door.  I don't really care. it could be your gain. it might not.

 

[ag8908]

  all I can say is you get what you pay for. some Chinese stuff is actually very good but it is more money. on the other hand everything costs nothing in china. just beware of what you are actually getting. I would rather spend 2 grand and be happy than lose $400 or whatever. some of this stuff is very good though. the problem is for most people to know what exactly they are looking at. at the very high end I do not think there is Chinese equivalents. go find me a msb diamond dac iv select just like the real thing for even 5 grand. if you want a $1,500 dac for $500 I agree that is possibly if you know what you are looking at. I would say going this route is not for the uninitiated which is mostly the audience attracted to these probably. on the other hand you could luck out. I like to stick to name brands for the r&d even if it is assembled in china. which is fine with me. of course as mentioned earlier many of these can actually in fact be name brand dacs minus the name plate. sketchy laws about that in china. in fact they love piracy. or slipping a companies contracted item out the back door.  I don't really care. it could be your gain. it might not.

 
One of the sites seems to say that the DAC I got is a copy of this DAC http://www.crutchfield.com/p_795EXPLRER/Meridian-Explorer.html?tp=59309&awkw=62354510905&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=33880943785&awdv=c

 

[lin0003]

Highly doubt it. 

 

[ab initio]

   
So is it putting out sub 30hz bass or not? First you say it's not and it's distortion (funny the distortion only started when the video started) and then you say it's really easy to output sub bass.
 
Edit: Actually, you didn't hear it so you wouldn't know. Never mind.

Look, nobody's trying to insult you here. I was just offering some third party, conflict of interest free commentary.
 
I went back to find your post with whatever thing you were listening to and comparing:

  Edit 9: OK, irrefutable and objective proof that this is a quality DAC. If you do this test http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-iCZElJ8m0 on 720p, on the hd800, with my laptop's DAC I don't hear anything until like 29 hz. On my cell phone's DAC I hear something at like 26 hz. But on this new Chinese DAC, I hear bass vibration immediately at 21 hz.

 
You streamed a youtube video through your phone, through your laptop, and through your DAC. Firstly, your phone's headphone jack includes a built in amplifier which may well roll off above 20Hz. Secondly, a youtube video streams with different audio fidelity at different quality levels, and I have no idea whether or not 20Hz would be encoded in whatever bit rate your phone streamed at. Thirdly, your laptop may or may not have an amplifier at the end of your laptop headphone jack (My laptop's realtek chip can disable the amplifier for pure line out) which may or may not roll off above 20hz. Fourthly,  my laptop's headphone out, with or without the amplifier enabled, is noisier than all heck and could mask any hard to hear tone (like 20 Hz) . Fifthly (sp?) was the same headphone amplifier used in all tests? like i said, low frequency is harder on an amplifier than a DAC.
 
My point was that your speculation that it was the DAC section that was responsible for reproducing 20Hz is counter to a reasonable understanding of how these components are designed and operate. If you couldn't hear the low frequency tone before, it's more likely that it is because either a) the amp sections used with the other devices couldn't muster 20Hz, b) the amp sections used before couldn't muster the voltage to blast 20 Hz to audible levels, or b) you have difficulty hearing that low and something was distorting in your last test that allowed you to hear harmonics of the fundamental.
 
I didn't trash your equipment, I just offered very logical and reasonable alternative hypotheses to explain your observations, because "I heard 20Hz, therefore this DAC is Amazing" is not congruent with the capabilities of typical equipment and hearing.
 
Cheers

 

[elmoe]

   
Exactly.
 
And this is not a cheap DAC at all. Open that youtube I linked earlier and tell me if you hear bass at 20hz with your DAC. I bet you don't. I couldn't with any prior DAC but can with this DAC. This is putting out amazing sub-bass into the HD800. It's also got great detail/treble/dynamics/spatials. I haven't heard a $1,000 DAC but I would be curious to see how it ranks. I'm relistening to all my songs and enjoying each one of them. I know it beats that HifimeDIY ESS9023 DAC that everyone loves.
 
Whether spending thousands extra will get me something better, I don't know, but I don't really care because it still won't sound as good as a speaker, and I'm happy with my headphone setup and this was $80 very well spent.

 
I can hear bass at 20hz with my DAC, even using my SA5000 without EQing, which is reknown for it's terrible bass response. If you're happy then great, that's what matters, but you're contradicting yourself here. You haven't heard a 1k usd DAC but you'd be curious to see how it ranks, or you don't really care because it still won't sound as good as a speaker? Which is it?

 

[Lorspeaker]

Wholly sheetzzz...I heard 20hz loud n clear Right off the first second..with my 60bucks Mikros90 on an iPad

Thanks for this YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-iCZElJ8m0

 

[ag8908]

Look, nobody's trying to insult you here. I was just offering some third party, conflict of interest free commentary.

I went back to find your post with whatever thing you were listening to and comparing:

You streamed a youtube video through your phone, through your laptop, and through your DAC. Firstly, your phone's headphone jack includes a built in amplifier which may well roll off above 20Hz. Secondly, a youtube video streams with different audio fidelity at different quality levels, and I have no idea whether or not 20Hz would be encoded in whatever bit rate your phone streamed at. Thirdly, your laptop may or may not have an amplifier at the end of your laptop headphone jack (My laptop's realtek chip can disable the amplifier for pure line out) which may or may not roll off above 20hz. Fourthly,  my laptop's headphone out, with or without the amplifier enabled, is noisier than all heck and could mask any hard to hear tone (like 20 Hz) . Fifthly (sp?) was the same headphone amplifier used in all tests? like i said, low frequency is harder on an amplifier than a DAC.

My point was that your speculation that it was the DAC section that was responsible for reproducing 20Hz is counter to a reasonable understanding of how these components are designed and operate. If you couldn't hear the low frequency tone before, it's more likely that it is because either a) the amp sections used with the other devices couldn't muster 20Hz, b) the amp sections used before couldn't muster the voltage to blast 20 Hz to audible levels, or b) you have difficulty hearing that low and something was distorting in your last test that allowed you to hear harmonics of the fundamental.

I didn't trash your equipment, I just offered very logical and reasonable alternative hypotheses to explain your observations, because "I heard 20Hz, therefore this DAC is Amazing" is not congruent with the capabilities of typical equipment and hearing.

Cheers

There are a number of errors there but I would really rather stop addressing your imagination.