[randyruiz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Add? I never left it, man! I was in the naysayer crowd against the claim that CDs bested LPs from day one. Not that I dislike CDs per se, since they most certainly are more convenient than LPs, but LPs have the better SQ. Ideally: LPs for the music where the fine print of SQ really matters. A small LP collection for your elite music. FLAC for the music where convenience matters, and you still care about SQ but not to the extremes that vinyl takes you. A big HD. MP3 for scrubbing your hard disk. Ain't worth it for listening. CDs as a transitory medium onto FLAC. Very discardable.

I agree with you on the formats. I think CD's will be going extinct soon because it really is a dated medium in terms of portability vs the digital file and vinyl should be around as a high end medium.

My prognostication for the future is a combo of Digital files killing off CDs, DVDA, HDCD and SACD. Vinyl will be used as a complementary medium to digital files for high end audio and for the visceral effect that Vinyl can elicit.

 

[thejoneser]

I just got back into vinyl after hearing the Music Matters' Definitive Blue Note Reissues at 45RPM. Being a Blue Note fan, I never had the money to spend on the deep-groove originals, so this is my chance to hear some of the best titles for a reasonable price. The sound quality, vinyl quality, and jackets are all superb. They definitely took these old recordings to a new level. Sound wise, they kill the Blue Note CDs that I have. Steve Hoffman did the mastering and I think this has to be some of his best work. I highly recommend them if you're into jazz.

 

[Know Talent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by randyruiz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have seen an uptick on the Vinyl post around here lately. Seems like interest in this format is picking up. Any Head-Fier's looking to add Vinyl as one of your formats?

IMO viynl is largely nostalgia-induced placebo...
Yeah, there are some fine sounding systems available, but at what cost vs. a top-notch digital system?
And what of the cost of the media???
What does a 180g LP cost vs. a CD?

To me, the viynl "thing" is largely propagated by those who stand to profit from high prices associated with niche markets. I don't think there's a single audio component that involves so many tweaks and tweekers!

I've had several friends with both vintage and newer set-ups (Pioneer, Denon, Rega, etc...) that my system, with its digital front end, will leave in the dust IMO.
Though I never taunted them over it, I have to think they agreed somewhat as over the years we spent a lot more time listening to my rigs.
To be "fair & balanced" I must admit I've heard extremely pricey digital frontended rigs at dealers that make me laugh vs. the sound quality I have at home.

regardless of Digital or Viynl...Room acoustics and system synergy are very important in getting the sound right!

 

[randyruiz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Know Talent /img/forum/go_quote.gif IMO viynl is largely nostalgia-induced placebo... Yeah, there are some fine sounding systems available, but at what cost vs. a top-notch digital system? And what of the cost of the media??? What does a 180g LP cost vs. a CD? To me, the viynl "thing" is largely propagated by those who stand to profit from high prices associated with niche markets. I don't think there's a single audio component that involves so many tweaks and tweekers! I've had several friends with both vintage and newer set-ups (Pioneer, Denon, Rega, etc...) that my system, with its digital front end, will leave in the dust IMO. Though I never taunted them over it, I have to think they agreed somewhat as over the years we spent a lot more time listening to my rigs. To be "fair & balanced" I must admit I've heard extremely pricey digital frontended rigs at dealers that make me laugh vs. the sound quality I have at home. regardless of Digital or Viynl...Room acoustics and system synergy are very important in getting the sound right!

I am going to keep my mouth shut. Because it would be too easy...

 

[bigshot]

Vinyl is great for bargain hunters. There's very little reason to spend more than two or three bucks an album, which makes it very convenient to experiment with different types of music. It's a total waste to go out and buy LPs of CDs you already own unless the CD mastering is hopelessly bungled. When it comes to sound quality, both digital and analogue is capable of great sound. It just depends on the mastering and pressing.

See ya
Steve

 

[ADD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Know Talent /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, there are some fine sounding systems available, but at what cost vs. a top-notch digital system? And what of the cost of the media??? What does a 180g LP cost vs. a CD? To me, the viynl "thing" is largely propagated by those who stand to profit from high prices associated with niche markets. I don't think there's a single audio component that involves so many tweaks and tweekers!

My experience is almost the opposite. My vinyl frontend cost me around $1400 Australian. I have not heard any digital anything at any price that comes remotely close whether that be CD, SACD, DVD-A or high res downloads.

As for tweaking, actually it was set and forget. After watching the Michael Fremer DVD I spent a few hours setting it all up properly and have never had to ever touch anything at the front end ever since. I won't need to ever touch it again until I change the stylus which will be a long way down the track. And even when I do that, it is just a matter of letting the suspension settle down with some running in then verifying the VTA and resetting the azimuth if required. That's half an hour work every 5 years or so.

I actually find all the tweaking needed is on the digital side of things - not the analogue. Analogue sound is the sort of sound that just doesn't need tweaking, because it is the closest reproduced sound to what we naturally hear.

 

[ADD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Know Talent /img/forum/go_quote.gif What does a 180g LP cost vs. a CD?

The price difference does not worry me in the slightest. If I buy the CD, I am not going to get much enjoyment out of it except for casual background listening. I have bought the vinyl equivalents of many of my CDs, at the cost of around $30 a piece for the vinyl. But the vinyl gives me far more pleasure to listen to and I will be able to enjoy it for many years to come. If $15 - $20 is the difference between something that I find uninvolving, have no motivation to listen to on repeated ocassions and where acoustic instruments such as violins just don't sound anything remotely like the real thing - versus something that I can isten to time and time again, get heaps of pelasure out of and where the sounds of instruments actually approach reality, then that is - for me - an incredibly small price to pay.

 

[Publius]

I'll be a party pooper in this thread.

I'm heavily invested in vinyl (I've got an OC9 in the mail!) but I would never for a minute recommend vinyl on its sound quality merits alone. I have yet to listen to a modern vinyl release that sounded better than the same album on CD. (Note that I haven't gotten much into the audiophile stuff, but I have listened to plenty of mainstream indie stuff on vinyl, and believe me, it is VERY disappointing.)

The dirty little secret about vinyl is that many modern vinyl releases use the same mastering as on the CD.

That said, I have many other reasons to invest in vinyl. But many/most of them are not related to sound quality.

 

[ADD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Publius /img/forum/go_quote.gif The dirty little secret about vinyl is that many modern vinyl releases use the same mastering as on the CD.

And many are mastered directly from the original analogue master tapes too. It's just a matter of buying from the labels that guarentee a completely analogue re-mastering chains, including an analogue delay on the cutter. That includes anything from Speaker's Corner, Classic Records and the (sadly now defunct) Cisco.

It is not surprising that people who have not experienced true audiophile quality, fully analogue re-masterings on a regular basis find it difficult or impossible to recommend vinyl on the basis of sound quality. Because I agree - bad records sound like crap.

But even these audiophile labels sometimes get it wrong for one reason or another. I have one CD that blows away my $30 vinyl equivalent. but in that case the original tapes had deteriorated so badly in the last 15 years (and the CD used first generation 3 channel tapes mixed down on the fly, the vinyl a pre-recorded 2-channel mixdown, I wonder why they bothered to remaster it to vinyl at all.

 

[Know Talent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif My experience is almost the opposite. My vinyl frontend cost me around $1400 Australian. I have not heard any digital anything at any price that comes remotely close whether that be CD, SACD, DVD-A or high res downloads. As for tweaking, actually it was set and forget. After watching the Michael Fremer DVD I spent a few hours setting it all up properly and have never had to ever touch anything at the front end ever since. I won't need to ever touch it again until I change the stylus which will be a long way down the track. And even when I do that, it is just a matter of letting the suspension settle down with some running in then verifying the VTA and resetting the azimuth if required. That's half an hour work every 5 years or so. I actually find all the tweaking needed is on the digital side of things - not the analogue. Analogue sound is the sort of sound that just doesn't need tweaking, because it is the closest reproduced sound to what we naturally hear.

regarding my comments on tweaking...I was refering to the plinth/platter damping variations, drive motor options, tonearms, cartridge options, phono stages, etc....

 

[Know Talent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by randyruiz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am going to keep my mouth shut. Because it would be too easy...

Fire away you viynl-loving hippie!

 

[Grant99]

"As someone who works in a music store, there's definitely a very large upturn in vinyl sales recently."

I haven't noticed the upturn that much myself, most people still think I'm a nutcase when they find I'm into vinyl...or they think I'm just someone who goes around to Saturday yard sales...

OK...confess...what music store do you work in? I live in Toronto myself and are always on the lookout for vinyl sources...I buy most of my stuff over the last number of years from diamondgroove.com and a few e-bay sellers.

That said, I'm always on the hunt for more sources!

 

[Know Talent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif The price difference does not worry me in the slightest. If I buy the CD, I am not going to get much enjoyment out of it except for casual background listening. I have bought the vinyl equivalents of many of my CDs, at the cost of around $30 a piece for the vinyl. But the vinyl gives me far more pleasure to listen to and I will be able to enjoy it for many years to come. If $15 - $20 is the difference between something that I find uninvolving, have no motivation to listen to on repeated ocassions and where acoustic instruments such as violins just don't sound anything remotely like the real thing - versus something that I can isten to time and time again, get heaps of pelasure out of and where the sounds of instruments actually approach reality, then that is - for me - an incredibly small price to pay.

I agree with you 100%... if I could detect a consistent and defined difference in musicality then I too would say the cost is justifiable. It's just that I have heard bad viynl as well as bad digital. I hope to have the opportunity some day to hear what true viynl afficianadoes consider a "good" rig, but again I ask.... at what price?

People who say a $1000 viynl rig sounds better than ANY digital must have very different opinions as to what constitutes "better" vs. my own personal criteria.

 

[ingwe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Vinyl is great for bargain hunters. There's very little reason to spend more than two or three bucks an album, which makes it very convenient to experiment with different types of music. It's a total waste to go out and buy LPs of CDs you already own unless the CD mastering is hopelessly bungled. When it comes to sound quality, both digital and analogue is capable of great sound. It just depends on the mastering and pressing. See ya Steve

Steve,

Very well said, sir!

-m

 

[Know Talent]

I'd be curious to hear what this new Marantz is capable of?
I believe this is the one that comes with the ClearAudio Virtuoso Wood cartridge and lists for $1599