[883dave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eucariote /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here ya go. This lays out standard experimental theory, design, testing and statistical methods quite nicely.

Thanks...

I know how the tests are set up....

Do you have a link to tests on the results of cable tests?

What would be helpful would be links to the "ABX test's, double blind test's, rigorous test's...etc" that people keep quoting from...

As far as I know "Science" is based on experiment and data not "hearsay"

 

[eucariote]

^ ah, that. Here's a couple.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 883dave /img/forum/go_quote.gif As this is a science forum... Could those people refering to ABX test's, double blind test's, rigorous test's...etc Please provide links to these tests

"The Great Ego Crunchers: Equalized, Double Blind Testing", Shanefield, Daniel, Hi-Fidelity, Mar 80, pg 57-61.

"Flying Blind", Nousaine, Tom, A case against long term listening,Audio, Mar 97, pg 26-30.

"Can you Trust Your Ears?", Nousaine, Tom, Stereo Review, Aug 97, pg 53-55.
"Can you Trust Your Ears?", Nousaine, Tom, Presented at the 91st AES Convention, Oct 91, Print #3167

"High-Resolution Subjective Testing Using a Double-Blind Comparator", Clark, David, Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol30, no 5, May82, pg 330-338.

"High-Fi Audio Pseudoscience", Davis, Fred E., Skeptical Inquirer, vol 15, no 3, Spring 91, pg 250-254.

"More on Hi-Fi Audio Claims", Davis, Fred E., Skeptical Inquirer, vol 16, no 1, Fall91, pg 90, 91.

"Speaker Cables: Testing for Audibility", Davis, Fred E., Audio, Jul 93, pg.

"Speaker Cables: Science or Snake Oil", Pass, Nelson, Speaker Builder, Feb 80, pg.

"The Wire and Cable Scene: Facts, Fictions and Frauds", Aczel, P. The Audio Critic, Part I- Issue 15, Spring-Winter 90-91; Part II-Issue 16, Spring-Fall 91, pg 51-57; Part III- issue 17, Winter 91-92, pg.50-52.

"Amplifiers and Speaker Cables", Masters, Ian, Audio lab test, Audio Scene Canada, Jun 81, pg 24-27.

"Speaker Cables: Can you Hear the Difference?", Greenhill, Larry, Stereo Review, Aug 83, pg 46-51.

"The Truth About Speaker Cables", Hoffman, Williwam R., Popular Electronics, Jul 95, pg 46-48, &93.

"Cross Talk, Do Cables Have a Sonic Personality all their Own?", Kessler, Kehn & Nousaine, Tom, Video, May 96, pg. 36-40.

"Does Wire Directionality Exist?", Lampen, Stephen, Speaker Builder, 3/98, pg 30, 31.

"Some Amplifiers Do Sound Different", Carlstrom, D., Kruger, A., & Greenhill, L., The Audio Amateur, 3/1982, pg 30, 31.

"Do All CD Players Sound the Same?", Masters, Ian G, Stereo review, Jan 1986, pg 50-57.

"6 Top CD Players: Can You Hear the Difference?", Pholmann, Ken C., Stereo Review, Dec 1988, pg 76-84.

"Theoretical and Audible Effects of Jitter on Digital Audio Quality", Benjamin, Eric and Gannon, Benjamin, 105th AES Convention, 1998, Print 4826.

"Hearing is Believeing vs Believing is Hearing: Blind vs Sighted Listening Tests ond Other Interesting Things", Toole, F. E. and Olive, S. E., 97th AES Convention, Nov 1994, Print #3894.

AES E-Library: Hearing is Believing vs. Believing is Hearing: Blind vs. Sighted Listening Tests, and Other Interesting Things

Ten years of A/B/X Testing
Experience from many years of double-blind listening tests of audio equipment is summarized. The results are generally consistent with threshold estimates from psychoacoustic literature, that is, listeners often fail to prove they can hear a difference after non-controlled listening suggested that there was one. However, the fantasy of audible differences continues despite the fact of audibility thresholds. David L. Clark

Power cable long term blind test - Hydrogenaudio Forums

ABX Double Blind Tests: Interconnects and Wires

ABX Double Blind Comparator Data

http://www.bruce.coppola.name/audio/Amp_Sound.pdf

Audibility of a CD-Standard A/DA/A Loop Inserted into High-Resolution Audio Playback. Authors:Meyer, E. Brad; Moran, David R.
Affiliation:Boston Audio Society, Lincoln, MA, USA
JAES Volume 55 Issue 9 pp. 775-779; September 2007

http://www.aes.org/sections/pnw/pnwrecaps/2000/lampen/


Which of the Two Digital Audio Systems Best Matches the Quality of the Analog System?
Aarts, Ronald; Engel, Jan; Reefman, Derk; Usher, John; Woszczyk, Wieslaw
31st International Conference: New Directions in High Resolution Audio (June 2007)

In double-blind tests, casual and professional listeners could not reliably identify high-bandwidth and high-resolution (192 kHz 24bit versus 48 kHz 24bit)

Measuring Audible Effects of Time Delays in Listening Rooms
Comb filter and all-pass time delay effects from stereo speakers in a representative listening room were auditioned and analyzed using a Time Delay Spectrometry analyzer. Considerable care was required to produce measurements that correlated with the audible effect. Conclusions are presented on the sonic relevance of some time, phase, and response measurements of speakers designed for stereo music reproduction. No one to date has been able to detect the presence of this circuit in hundreds of sensitive double-blind tests on speech or music program Clark, David AES Convention:74 (October 1983) Paper Number

Here are a few to be getting on with...

 

[JxK]

Impressive. And I'll bet that each and every one of those links reaches the exact same conclusion. I suppose James Randi will just end up keeping his million dollars.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JxK /img/forum/go_quote.gif Impressive. And I'll bet that each and every one of those links reaches the exact same conclusion. I suppose James Randi will just end up keeping his million dollars.

To the best of my knowledge there has only ever been 1 successful DBT of audio cables. That was using the unamped output of a turntable MM cartridge and the cables were 1M and 6M long, the source signal being a few 10s of mV.

 

[BIG POPPA]

All those articles look like a boot camp for noob's?

 

[waterlogic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG POPPA /img/forum/go_quote.gif All those articles look like a boot camp for noob's?

Hi - How does this look like :

QLS-6

The only power strip that is Quantum Tunneled!
Synergistics new Quantum Line Strip features 6 widely spaced individual outlets housed in a 24" long by 1 5/8 wide by 1 1/2" tall chassis. All of the outlets are switched, and you can power it with your favorite cord. The quantum tunnelling helps the strip offer up a relaxed sound with a wide and deep stage. This is one giant killer of a strip! It beat the Oyaide MTB-6 with R-1 receptacles in listening tests. Amazing!

What is Quantum Tunneled ?

New financial fraud jargon from Wall Street ?

AMAZING !

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by waterlogic /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi - How does this look like : QLS-6 The only power strip that is Quantum Tunneled! Synergistics new Quantum Line Strip features 6 widely spaced individual outlets housed in a 24" long by 1 5/8 wide by 1 1/2" tall chassis. All of the outlets are switched, and you can power it with your favorite cord. The quantum tunnelling helps the strip offer up a relaxed sound with a wide and deep stage. This is one giant killer of a strip! It beat the Oyaide MTB-6 with R-1 receptacles in listening tests. Amazing! What is Quantum Tunneled ? New financial fraud jargon from Wall Street ? AMAZING !

Suspiciously snake oil indeed.

 

[Arjisme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG POPPA /img/forum/go_quote.gif All those articles look like a boot camp for noob's?

What do you mean?

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimlink /img/forum/go_quote.gif With regard to volume, I had a startling experience with this when comparing the AKG 702 stock cable with the ALO SXC Cryo. I had to turn the volume up when I switched to the stock cable. I was really surprised at the difference since my last experience was with the HD650 and Cardas cable where I was most disappointed. I can't say to this day, whether or not there was really any difference in sound between the stock and Cardas cables.

I have just made my second cable for my K702s. I have not tested them extensively, but the only difference between them so far is that each needs the volume reset. I wonder now how many people have bought a different cable and mistaken a sound improvement for a slight change in volume?

 

[JohnFerrier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif "The Great Ego Crunchers: Equalized, Double Blind Testing", Shanefield, Daniel, Hi-Fidelity, Mar 80, pg 57-61. . . . Measuring Audible Effects of Time Delays in Listening Rooms . . . No one to date has been able to detect the presence of this circuit in hundreds of sensitive double-blind tests on speech or music program Clark, David AES Convention:74 (October 1983) Paper Number

Thanks for the effort!

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif To the best of my knowledge there has only ever been 1 successful DBT of audio cables. That was using the unamped output of a turntable MM cartridge and the cables were 1M and 6M long, the source signal being a few 10s of mV.

What Hifi's series 'The Big Question' has produced a series of results where forum members have been able to detect sound differences in a whole raft of different cable/kit blind tests. Most recently was an almost perfect identification of high bit rate downloads over CDs.

Thanks for the earlier post with the list of articles about ABX tests, superb!

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prog Rock Man /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have just made my second cable for my K702s. I have not tested them extensively, but the only difference between them so far is that each needs the volume reset. I wonder now how many people have bought a different cable and mistaken a sound improvement for a slight change in volume?

That should not be. A headphone cable should not exceed ~1 Ω, so on a 62-Ω headphone it should not cause a noticeable difference in volume.
.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prog Rock Man /img/forum/go_quote.gif What Hifi's series 'The Big Question' has produced a series of results where forum members have been able to detect sound differences in a whole raft of different cable/kit blind tests. Most recently was an almost perfect identification of high bit rate downloads over CDs.

Interesting, are any of these online ?

 

[Shike]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimlink /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've wanted to read a thread on this issue for a long time.

If we go by known measurements there shouldn't be a real difference. I think most difference are placebo, or lack of level matching. That is of course providing both are similar in their capabilities.

The headroom example falls apart as they don't provide enough measurements and results to honestly compare them.