[eyeteeth]

In my searches for transport solutions I do come across C.E.C belt drive transports like the C.E.C. TL51X. Belt driven analog turntables I understand. But transports I do not. Someone please enlighten me. The digital data is less noisy? This seems crazy.

 

[Nak Man]

I wondered the same thing first time I saw the ad - but I think it didn't last a long time ? Maybe that kind of prove something.

 

[eyeteeth]

C.E.C a Japanese company in existence since 1954 patented the belt drive in 1991 so it and they are not exactly a flash in the pan. How or why it can possibly sound better is my question.

North American link
Japanese link

 

[lini]

Well, I'd assume the same reasoning as always with belt drives: better decoupling of motor vibrations. That might have some impact on how precisely the data can be read - and maybe on jitter, too.

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini

 

[bln]

No idea why it actually sounds better, but I bet hearing "belt-drive" appeals to consumers the same way hearing "analogue-sounding" does. Some people who have never had a turntable are still always looking for the most analogue-sounding CD player.

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth How or why it can possibly sound better is my question.

I understood the question - but similarly don't know the answer.

As I recall 'jitter' takes place on converter, and have yet to read transport related one. Btw I didn't realise they're still in production, sorry. Anyway I couldn't find good review on them. Only a brief one on Parasound unit which used same belt driven mechanism. No comment on its specific advantage.

My point was - if they're that good, or at least proven some merit - more companies would've used its transport. And seeing Meridian's success using cdrom drive, even on highly popular G08, made me a bit skeptical on exotic tranports. Sorry didn't help much.

 

[gsferrari]

Well...in a turntable the belt is basically acting like a "voltage regulator" of a power supply...it absorbs the vibrations, sudden changes in speed etc.

In a digital source I dont see why this should have any advantage because :-

* belts will cause vibration unless alignment is perfect...even then...material wear over a period of time will have worse effects in a digital source than an analog source

* you now have to reduce vibrations in both the MOTOR and the belt drive...

I dont see this becoming popular and I think it was purely to "try" out something new...

 

[PhilS]

The CEC belt drives have been around for some time, as noted above. Some of their models seem to be held in pretty good esteem on Audio Asylum, for what it's worth. I was seriously considering a used one that was listed on audiogon, until I stumbled upon the modified PS Audio Lambda that I am using as a transport now.

 

[edstrelow]

I have had the CEC TL 5100z for several years and love its sound. It is a belt-drive unit and for whatever reasons has that elusive analog sound. Whether or not it is the belt drive that does it I cannot say.

My readings on issues such as jitter suggest that this can occur anywhere in the system and not all transports will sound the same when fed to a DAC. I also suspect that if the player has to resort to too much error correction this also affects sound since the error correction is more properly called statistical guessing.

In addition to the belt-drive it also employes a very heavy puck to dampen and stabilize the disc. So this may be part of the formula for its success.

Unfortunately this player has stopped reading discs and I am having to decide between a $400.00 repair bill, a $1,500.00 replacement for the newer model, with upgraded electronics, or something else.

At this moment I am going cheap, a $200.00 Sherwood Newcastle which has very good reviews. My hope is that with various improvements in electronics, the newer Sherwood may be as good as the older design CEC If I guess wrong on this it would at least make a good secondary system player and then I am faced with my original dilema.

 

[eyeteeth]

Very interesting edstrelow.

I think you're speculation is probably correct.
So...how much of a step down is the $200.00 Sherwood Newcastle from the CEC TL 5100z?
Painful or negligible or somewhere in between?

 

[Dreamslacker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari Well...in a turntable the belt is basically acting like a "voltage regulator" of a power supply...it absorbs the vibrations, sudden changes in speed etc. In a digital source I dont see why this should have any advantage because :- * belts will cause vibration unless alignment is perfect...even then...material wear over a period of time will have worse effects in a digital source than an analog source * you now have to reduce vibrations in both the MOTOR and the belt drive... I dont see this becoming popular and I think it was purely to "try" out something new...

Maybe the idea was to isolate the motor's vibrations from the lens unit instead? So instead of both the disc and the lens unit being subjected to the vibrations, only the disc is subjected to it if the belt wears out (I'm assuming they (CEC/ Sanyo Optronics) know what their doing since they did invent the technique.

 

[1audio]

Quote from edstrelow:

Unfortunately this player has stopped reading discs and I am having to decide between a $400.00 repair bill, a $1,500.00 replacement for the newer model, with upgraded electronics, or something else.

 
I have had a CEC for over ten years now. I have had a few occasions where I thought it had died but it was fine after all. I did extensive mods on it when i got it and I'm pretty familiar with its internals.

They are among the best sounding drives bar none. The story is that the belt drive has lower frequency errors that the servo can fix but that doesn't really wash. I have had good playback with rubbing disks in the past so isolation is only a small part of the problem.

What is the failure mode of your transport? It may be a simple problem.

 

[John Reeves]

Hi,

One of the reasons a belt drive sounds better than a direct motor driven platter is the lack of speed variation. Good belt drives, i.e., Linn Sondek use a heavy platter which due to it's momentum will run at a more constant speed since short term fluctuations are ironed out.

The problem with direct drives is "hunting". The speed sensor sends a signal back to the motor controller to speed up or slow down the platter, it does this very rapidly but continously. This means the the platter is always speeding up or slowing down, albeit minutely.

The other reasons mentioned above also apply. i.e. isolation.

Cheers

John

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Reeves The problem with direct drives is "hunting". Cheers John

That seems to make a good deal of sense. Very cool.
Thanks John

 

[Leporello]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyeteeth That seems to make a good deal of sense.

Not really. Cd players are digital machines. Record players (e.g. Linn Sondek) are not.

But to many an audiophile the difference does not matter of course. After all, in both systems we have a rotating disc (only the colour and size differ!) that produces sound, right?

Regards,

L.