[HONEYBOY]

Honeyboy, thank you for your comments. I will take your recommendations into consideration about pairing (or rather not pairing) the WA23 with the HM1. I will probably try it just because, but I’m guessing, if I am looking for tube presentation, I’ll stick solely to the WA23 and just have the HM1 as my primary solid state.

Also, I will be looking to upgrade the tubes. Tube-rolling specifics are a bit newer to me. What differences/improvements could I expect from the Taks? Do you have experience with the Psvane versus the Takatsukis? I know there’s a large price parity between the two, probably justifiably so, but would love hear more impressions.

I have only heard the PSVane's once so I couldn't comment on them relative to the Takatsukis, but relative to the stock tubes the Takatsuki's open up the sound stage by a decent margin, and the bass quality, that is depth and texture is improved. There is also an overall refinement upgrade and the mids are just to die for. Everything will sound more vivid and colorful. The improvement isn't always immediately apparent, but upon close listening it is there. In stock configuration HM1 slightly out resolves the WA23, with the Takatsukis I am inclined to say WA23 equals or slightly surpasses the HM1 in detail retrieval and sounds more holographic and corporeal.

the 23 as a pre amp to the riviera is nose bleed territory is terms of cost

Absolutely, outrageous in cost for me as well, but thought I'd mention it since some folks don't find high costs to be that prohibitive.

 

[Aetherhole]

I have only heard the PSVane's once so I couldn't comment on them relative to the Takatsukis, but relative to the stock tubes the Takatsuki's open up the sound stage by a decent margin, and the bass quality, that is depth and texture is improved. There is also an overall refinement upgrade and the mids are just to die for. Everything will sound more vivid and colorful. The improvement isn't always immediately apparent, but upon close listening it is there. In stock configuration HM1 slightly out resolves the WA23, with the Takatsukis I am inclined to say WA23 equals or slightly surpasses the HM1 in detail retrieval and sounds more holographic and corporeal.

Absolutely, outrageous in cost for me as well, but thought I'd mention it since some folks don't find high costs to be that prohibitive.

I appreciate the thoughts. I still need to do a bit of research, but the Taks keep getting such high praises that I may end up just going that route anyway. Also appreciate the comparison to the HM1. I’m looking forward to getting that in a few months.

 

[yellowblue]

Someone here who has experiences with buying Susvara from "Watchbox" Ebay store? Susvaras come up for a really good price and disappear again and you will get a link from the seller when he adds a "buy now" buttom.

 

[jlemaster1957]

Someone here who has experiences with buying Susvara from "Watchbox" Ebay store? Susvaras come up for a really good price and disappear again and you will get a link from the seller when he adds a "buy now" buttom.

I only buy from eBay vendors after a personal referral from someone who has bought from that vendor successfully (hopefully multiple times from that vendor). Some vendors allow returns and EBay should guarantee your ability to return if you don’t receive what was advertised. Be careful out there. I bought my Susvara open box from a nationally recognized vendor, but you may have to wait a while for such a deal.

 

[yellowblue]

I did a little research about cheap Susvaras on Ebay. There are Ebay vendors which get out their offers on Ebay for a very short time and disappear again. When you contact the sellers they are offering you a "buy now" link via mail which appears to be a Ebay link but it isn´t. It is going to a fake page. Never buy at vendors who don´t allow bidding on the official Ebay-page and offer to send you a "buy now"-link!

 

[theveterans]

Bought my Susvara from a dealer. Not gonna risk getting scammed. This headphone still deserves to be in the 4K price brand new just for how much scaling up potential it has IMHO.

 

[jlemaster1957]

Bought my Susvara from a dealer. Not gonna risk getting scammed. This headphone still deserves to be in the 4K price brand new just for how much scaling up potential it has IMHO.

Agree - dealers are best, preferably known dealers who post on or who care about Head-fi comments.

 

[fansq]

the 23 as a pre amp to the riviera is nose bleed territory is terms of cost

I guess if you have both integrated amps around it would make sense pairing the preamp of one with the amp of the other. I would think if you wanted to go this route you’d have more selection using dedicated preamps. That said, it’s a nice problem to have. And I’m interested in your impressions. And Bonesy Jonesy suggested the Aries Cerat Genus. I’d love to hear that if money is no object. Their entry level integrated amp w/a headphone jack.

 

[jlemaster1957]

Hey fellow Sus users- any Wilsenton R800i tube amp users out there? Seems like the 45 Wpc in 8 ohms might be a bit shy of what Sus needs to control bass well

 

[theveterans]

Hey fellow Sus users- any Wilsenton R800i tube amp users out there? Seems like the 45 Wpc in 8 ohms might be a bit shy of what Sus needs to control bass well

Nope. Not about power output at all. Circuit design and transformer/caps quality are what matters. Woo WA23 is reported to have great bass control despite the 2 watts at 8 ohm specs

 

[sahmen]

Nope. Not about power output at all. Circuit design and transformer/caps quality are what matters. Woo WA23 is reported to have great bass control despite the 2 watts at 8 ohm specs

True that! But doesn't that come as a bit of surprise after reading about all the megawatt mega-amps and kilowatt speaker amps some posters and readers of this forum alone have salivated over and spent years chasing (when they can afford it) in order to fulfill the fleeting dream of driving their Susvara to optimal levels?

I for one have had a few chuckles recently reading the specs of the Mass Kobo 394 mk II, which many consider to be one of the ablest drivers of the Susvara, with the Kobo's puny size and modest output power of 2.2 watts into 32 Ohms!

Specifications​

Model : Full Balanced Stereo headphone amp
Input : Electronically Balanced = XLR3-31 , Unbalance = RCA
Output : Balance = XLR4-31 x 1 or XLR3-31 x 2(L,R) , Unbalance = φ6.3 TRS x 2(High or Low)
Input Impedance : 3.7kΩ (XLR)/ 12kΩ (RCA)
Reference Input Level : +4dBm/-10dBm (XLR)/ -10dBm (RCA)
Maximum Input Level : +25dBm (XLR)/ +10dBm (RCA)
Maximum Output Level (P-P) : Balance = Hi 24V, Low 18V (with 32Ω loaded, 1kHz, THD+N 0.05%)Unbalance = Hi 12V, Low 9V (with 32Ω loaded, 1kHz, THD+N 0.05%)
(RMS): Balance = Hi 8.5V, Low 6V (with 32Ω loaded, 1kHz, THD+N 0.05%) Unbalance = Hi 4.2V, Low 3V (with 32Ω loaded, 1kHz, THD+N 0.05%)
Maximum Output without Distortion : Balance = 2.2W , Unbalance = 600mW (with 32 ohm load, 1kHz, THD+N 0.05%)
Frequency Characteristics : 13Hz - 100kHz (-0.5dB)
Power Supply : AC100 - 240V, 50/60Hz
Energy Consumption : 0.5A (with AC100V)
Size :
285mmW x 230mmD x 50mmH (except the rubber feet and projections)
285mmW x 230mmD x 52mmH (including the rubber feet and projections)
Weight : 2.9kg (without the power cable)



The curious thing is that it is has a forum on head-fi, which must be among the least patronized/subscribed.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...op-full-balanced-headphone-amp-thread.903680/

I have been speaking partly in jest, but, as a long standing fan of the susvara, and of the He-6 before the susvara, I seriously wish I had learnt about the existence of the Mass Kobo 394/394 mk II much earlier.

 

[LucasKA]

True that! But doesn't that come as a bit of surprise after reading about all the megawatt mega-amps and kilowatt speaker amps some posters and readers of this forum alone have salivated over and spent years chasing (when they can afford it) in order to fulfill the fleeting dream of driving their Susvara to optimal levels?

I for one have had a few chuckles recently reading the specs of the Mass Kobo 394 mk II, which many consider to be one of the ablest drivers of the Susvara, with the Kobo's puny size and modest output power of 2.2 watts into 32 Ohms!

Specifications​

Model : Full Balanced Stereo headphone amp
Input : Electronically Balanced = XLR3-31 , Unbalance = RCA
Output : Balance = XLR4-31 x 1 or XLR3-31 x 2(L,R) , Unbalance = φ6.3 TRS x 2(High or Low)
Input Impedance : 3.7kΩ (XLR)/ 12kΩ (RCA)
Reference Input Level : +4dBm/-10dBm (XLR)/ -10dBm (RCA)
Maximum Input Level : +25dBm (XLR)/ +10dBm (RCA)
Maximum Output Level (P-P) : Balance = Hi 24V, Low 18V (with 32Ω loaded, 1kHz, THD+N 0.05%)Unbalance = Hi 12V, Low 9V (with 32Ω loaded, 1kHz, THD+N 0.05%)
(RMS): Balance = Hi 8.5V, Low 6V (with 32Ω loaded, 1kHz, THD+N 0.05%) Unbalance = Hi 4.2V, Low 3V (with 32Ω loaded, 1kHz, THD+N 0.05%)
Maximum Output without Distortion : Balance = 2.2W , Unbalance = 600mW (with 32 ohm load, 1kHz, THD+N 0.05%)
Frequency Characteristics : 13Hz - 100kHz (-0.5dB)
Power Supply : AC100 - 240V, 50/60Hz
Energy Consumption : 0.5A (with AC100V)
Size :
285mmW x 230mmD x 50mmH (except the rubber feet and projections)
285mmW x 230mmD x 52mmH (including the rubber feet and projections)
Weight : 2.9kg (without the power cable)



The curious thing is that it is has a forum on head-fi, which must be among the least patronized/subscribed.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the...op-full-balanced-headphone-amp-thread.903680/

I have been speaking partly in jest, but, as a long standing fan of the susvara, and of the He-6 before the susvara, I seriously wish I had learnt about the existence of the Mass Kobo 394/394 mk II much earlier.

I am a lucky owner of a mass kobo 394ii and can confirm it does indeed drive Susvara really well (and every headphone I pair with it too). I usually use low gain and turn the dial around 2/3pm or high gain around 12pm.

The amp doesn’t emphasis on any frequency, but work along the headphone to bring out its best quality.

I also like pair my Susvara with Bakoon HPA01, transportable at home and drives the Sus well enough. It gives the music a more energetic vibe and slight more bass compare to 394ii. But 394 still wins with overall presentation.

I wrote a very brief impression in this thread if you search for mass kobo.

The maker is a one man business like JM Audio and ModHouse and Masuda-san hand built each of his unit.

 

[Leporello]

To me, the ‘upgraditis’ that results from regular participation in this thread mostly arises due to Susvara’s ability to bring more /better SQ to the listening experience as more/better chain components are introduced. Seemingly, if one is able (due to ones finances and other social situation) to invest > $9000 into (say) a TOTL headphone amplifier, one can get pretty close to what most post-ers are describing as ‘optimal’ in terms of the SQ Susvara can deliver.

There's an alternative point of view to this of course. It is quite possible that those headphones seemingly benefiting from mostly imaginary upgrades actually have some serious sonic flaws. But since one has just paid inordinate amounts of money this is difficult to admit. It is easier to blame anything else but the headphones themselves. This is how the myth of special 'scalability' most often begins. And - accordingly - the faults of the headphones have suddenly become a virtue.

 

[up late]

the contrarian returns *yawn*

 

[number1sixerfan]

I started a post about FOMO and the Sirens' Song because on this Susvara thread, the discussions tend to be about upgrading amps, DACs and cables. Aiming to get the very best out of Susvara. Sailing as close to the island as possible. "Take away my credit cards...I'm going to check out Envy or HE1 or whatever."

I have ZMF Atrium incoming. On the Atrium thread, everyone just talks about how much they love those HP's. Maybe a little talk about swapping out earpads but that's about it. Happy with what they have.

Really looking forward to the ZMF product - seems like a great company.

I'm a fan of ZMF, but I think a big reason for this is that the Susvara is more of an end game product, and seen as such. You'll see the same thing in just about all of the threads for products that most see as near or absolute end game.. TC, Raal, etc. I think this is for a couple reasons.. one when you're at the Susvara (or whatever else is your near end game product), there isn't really more of an upgrade path headphone wise, unlike with the Atrium. So people are just trying to maximize the performance of their end game product, which to me, makes sense.

The other thing is... people forget that this IS a hobby. It's ok if people want to buy and try things lol. I get why it gets demonized because some hang it over folks heads as if it's the only way you can experience the Susvara properly, and in other cases spew too much hyperbole or get dupped by placebo effects. But still, trying gear out because you hear good things about it is not inherently wrong. People should just follow their own philosophy.