Hifiman Sundara (HE400i upgraded, around $500)
Apr 9, 2024 at 10:02 PM Post #4,246 of 4,303
With Topping, you know you're going to get a clean sounding device. With Schiit, you know you're going to get a magical sounding one. I choose magical, anytime. But it's not my purchase, so it's really up to the buyer, what they're looking for.
Both are clean. Pretty much every headphone amp is clean. Any distortion that is audible is orders of magnitude more due to the headphones than the amps. A "magical" sounding amp is whichever pairs best with your headphone(s). My Schiit Vali 2+ doesn't sound all too magical with the Sundara, even after trying two other tubes. I have not tried other Schiit amps, besides the Asgard 2 and OG Mjolnir, neither of which has the warmth needed to pair well with the Sundara. Newer Schiits seem to be warmer, according to impressions. The Sundara seems to prefer warm sounding amps that are virtually unlimited by current output, i.e. speaker amps, via speaker taps. Now, those can be "dirty," with significant noise floor.

I think what many refer to as "clean" is actually just an overdamped sound. This is the type of sound that often feels thin, dry and lifeless, lacking naturalness and body/presence. True cleanliness is simply an output signal that is faithful to its input, and this is measurable. However, every modern headphone amp is capable of levels of cleanliness that are far beyond human detection, such that any "dirtiness" is imperceptible compared to a theoretical 0% THD + noise signal.

Two amps can have virtually identical distortion measurements and still sound quite different. These electrical signals outputed by different amps may measure identically, but behave differently when driving transducers, and this discrepancy even varies in degree by different headphones. The Sundara, for example, goes from "okay" sounding with my HP amps to completely transformed through my speaker taps. My HE-6se v2 doesn't seem to exhibit quite the same drastic change. It is intriguing.
 
Apr 10, 2024 at 7:28 AM Post #4,247 of 4,303
My Sundara's sound good with my Magni 3+ and even better with my Asgard 3. I pair them with a MMB2 and Loki Mini. Not as much so with my Vali 2++. Where they really lit up was when I put the jumper in my Emotiva BasX A-100 and they got the full power going to the speaker terminals. They love power.
 
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Apr 10, 2024 at 8:06 PM Post #4,248 of 4,303
Lavricables.
the one i posted in previous posts is spot on, 19,99~ revolving around that price, but from China
 
Apr 10, 2024 at 8:10 PM Post #4,249 of 4,303
Hi all, I am thinking of upgrading to a Fiio K7 BT to power my sundara.
currently using a styleaudio HD1V from eons ago.

Just to check what would be the noticeable difference(s) if I switch to the K7?
Fiio k7 non-BT would do well, as i use it now, but i had fiio k5 pro also, but never tested with Sundara, but i am guessing k5 pro would have done plenty for those cans, juicy enough DAC
 
Apr 10, 2024 at 9:51 PM Post #4,250 of 4,303
i prefer a all-in-one option rather to have separate amp/dac.
Have ordered the K7 BT (because the BT and non-BT options pricing not much difference).
Cant wait for it and thanks all for your inputs!
 
Apr 30, 2024 at 6:34 PM Post #4,253 of 4,303
IMO, Sundara with EQ is the best headphone Hifiman ever have produced, I have own several more expensive Hifimans, but to me Sundara sounds best.
Which models? What amp(s)?

The Sundara is pretty fine esp for the price, but I count 15 HFM models past and present that I'd rank ahead of the Sundara.
 
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Apr 30, 2024 at 11:21 PM Post #4,254 of 4,303
Well, so far there are at least three people who agree with me that the Sundara, when driven right, is TOTL-tier sound quality. I can provide one testimony that was a PM sent to me years ago in response to my first post about the Sundara + Crown XLS 1502 combo:

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replies:
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I was curious as why the Sundara was no longer listed in their signature. Really piqued my curiosity, so I had to investigate/sneak around. Turns out that was because they only very recently lost their Sundara to a driver failure, and is looking to buy/trade for another Sundara! HAHA
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Literally just 9 days ago was the listing date! :O

This person was willing to trade all but their HE-500 and VZR Model One. Makes me ever more curious about the long fabled HE-500!
 
May 1, 2024 at 2:42 PM Post #4,255 of 4,303
TOTL tier? Recommended under $300 US - sure thing...

I posted this list of 15 HFM headphones I know (past and present) that IMO are better than the Sundara in the XS thread. HFM pricing agrees.

Susvara
HEK Stealth, SE, v2, v1
HE-6 6 screw, SE, SE v2
HEX v2
Arya 1, 2, Stealth
Ananda Stealth

I left off the 4, 5, 5LE, 6 4 screw as they are known by few.
 
May 13, 2024 at 1:07 PM Post #4,256 of 4,303
Today I received my ZMF hybrid pads for Sundara. They look and feel vastly superior than the stock ones. Ear cavity is bigger and in my opinion much more comfortable. The thicker side is thicker than the stock one. Measurements on my Sundara with a MiniDSP look more different than the ones shown in ZMF’s Youtube video; attached are my measurements (green is stock, red ZMF). The extra 2KHz dip does not sound obvious to my ears, adjusting it with eq does not sound much the general perception. Overall, it sounds more refined, mature and organic with ZMF pads. Soundstage is less panned and slightly more in-front-of, speaker-like. There is a hard to put into words better textural refinement with ZMF pads, there is something very addictive in the sound with them, yet at the same time not sounding as different as measurements show.
 

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May 18, 2024 at 1:39 PM Post #4,257 of 4,303
After a few days with the ZMF pads on the Sundara, I underestimated the difference: with the ZMF pads, Sundara performs in the 1000€ territory, easily, I’d say it’s a must for everybody to try them! And much more comfortable; now, if there was a easy way to install Arya style headband on them…
 

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