Hifiman Sundara (HE400i upgraded, around $500)
Jan 22, 2024 at 8:38 AM Post #4,201 of 4,303
Price devaluation is one of the reasons I don’t immediately buy anything HifiMan. You have something like the Ananda at 900 bucks becoming 399 on a sale for a couple months. That means they are ripping you off the other months of the year. The only HP stuck on high price is Susvara but that’s because their high price is driven by head-fier, ironically enough. The closer to Chinese new year it is the lower the price will be.
Re: HiFiMan playing the supply-demand game... and "what the market will bear".... you make a good point -- their prices vary wildly with the season. It makes me wonder what the actual cost of the headphones really are. Unfortuantely, this brand is rare up here in my neck of the (North Bruce Peninsula) woods. I would like to try them out... add them to my collection.
{{{edit}}}... I have 2 fantastic headphones in my collection... LCD3 and EtherC. I might not be missing out too much (not having HiFiMan).
 
Last edited:
Jan 22, 2024 at 2:48 PM Post #4,202 of 4,303
Agreed that any/all planars that I know seem to behave better with lots of extra capacity in the amp. And yes turn on/off thumps and dropped stylii are anywhere from worrying to catastrophic with a big amp on a headphone turned up. That would go for some bad T-storms, or transformer issues that can do mega damage to everything plugged in.
 
Jan 22, 2024 at 3:16 PM Post #4,203 of 4,303
Re: HiFiMan playing the supply-demand game... and "what the market will bear".... you make a good point -- their prices vary wildly with the season. It makes me wonder what the actual cost of the headphones really are. Unfortuantely, this brand is rare up here in my neck of the (North Bruce Peninsula) woods. I would like to try them out... add them to my collection.
{{{edit}}}... I have 2 fantastic headphones in my collection... LCD3 and EtherC. I might not be missing out too much (not having HiFiMan).
HFM has labor/supply costs and the advantages of large manufacturing that very few audiophile brands have. Even factoring in retail mark-up, R&D, SQA, support, marketing, reltooling for a new line/upgrade and all of that averaged out, would lead to them being able to make a decent profit if the Susvara sold retail in the US for $999. The HEK Stealth probably costs 80% as much or more to build. But sad to say if the Susvara sold for $999 it would lower the esteem it is held in - to some. Such is the perception of value and exclusivity. This doesn't hold for everyone, but, who can see behind he curtain, and it still has to be judged by its competition.
 
Jan 22, 2024 at 3:55 PM Post #4,204 of 4,303
The advantage to Hifiman's approach of discounting previous models when the "new" one releases, or after a given model has been out for a while, is that you can get some of the best deals in headphones.

For example, the Ananda Stealth at $399 right now is an insane deal. There's nothing at that price point that can touch it. You benefit from them releasing a newer "Nano" version, but it's still the same great headphone that used to cost $700+.

The Edition XS now goes for $379, and it was regarded as the best headphone at $500.

The Sundara's normal price is $299 now, and it was always regarded as one of the best sub $500 headphones, and certainly one of the best at $350-400.

Arya Stealth at $899 is terrific also. Definitely is an over $1k quality headphone, that you can now get for a price where nothing competes with it.

It's smart. They come out with incremental improvements on established models and sell them for around the same price, and then discount the "old" model and effectively take over that lower price bracket. I can understand feeling burned if you bought right before a price drop though.

Still I prefer this to other brands that either way over priced their stuff (ex. Audeze, though they've been coming back to earth recently with pricing), or make very minor improvements and try to sell for more while keeping their lineup the same price for decades (Sennheiser).
 
Jan 23, 2024 at 4:15 AM Post #4,206 of 4,303
I’m one of the few that won’t buy till I find value in it. Take Susvara. I still haven’t bought it because it may be ranked top but it’s dirt old and cost 6k. There are now just as good if not better cans for 1/3 the price.

I’d rather get the discounted cans with good reviews. I don’t go off of only original price to determine value, though. There is a reason why the price dropped so low, so quickly.
 
Jan 23, 2024 at 10:06 AM Post #4,207 of 4,303
In my case, my digital sources (FLAC encoding, CD-quality, meticiculously mixed/mastered material), (technically) 3 flavours of DAC (Fulla [delta-sigma?], Magni [budget multibit], Bifrost [almost top-tier multibit]), USB-to-SPID/F converter, analogue tone control (Loki), and various headphone amplifiers (solid state, all tube, mix of both) ...is as good as I can get it.

If I want to get different meaningful results, I try out different headhones.
HiFiMan Susvara is, like @psy472 states, is old (as old as the Senheisser HD650 [I already have it... don't know if it's discontinued]).
I suspect for the next few years, I want to get a representative from each manufacturer.
  • Mr.Headphones, DanClark Audio = yep. Don't want another $$$$$ pair.
  • Audeze = yep. See above.
  • Beyerdynamic = yep. $500 got it. Fragile wires.
  • Sony = yep. Got it. Broken wires. Need to fix, as apparently my model is used by many of my musician/audio-engineer buddies. They might not be the best sounding cans, but I'm curious about what these recording-technicians hear.
  • HiFiMan = $300-600 CAD headphone. Want it.
  • AKG = ....?.... Want it.
  • Fostex = ...?... Want it.
  • Efficient versus high-impedance headphones. I like the extremes. 600 ohm Beyerdynamics! It's fun to see my amplifiers run a little harder to push out sound!
  • I agree with all the above musings -- the most interesting price-range are cans sold in the $300-500USD prices.
  • Do I have a point? Nah. :ksc75smile::ksc75smile:
 
Jan 23, 2024 at 4:50 PM Post #4,208 of 4,303
joined Sundara club, with Sundaras won for 156 GBP on ebay, "i will stop buying headphones..", can't wait for them to be at my address for Fiio K7
 
Jan 24, 2024 at 12:23 PM Post #4,209 of 4,303
Don't have experience with the A-100, but my recommendation is to go even further if you can. Try something that could output 300+ wpc into 4 ohms.

Take extra precautions if your amp is class A, B, or AB. You can easily destroy headphones with these amps, though planars are less susceptible than dynamics. Unplug headphones before turning off the amp, and plug in after a few seconds of power on. Don't have to do with that with my XLS, though. It's less worrisome than the Schitt amps I used to pair with my old Hifimans, because their pops were pretty loud. No pops here.
I installed the jumpers on my BasX A-100 and there was a noticeable difference. Where I used to get it up to three o'clock now, I get the same volume at eleven or noon. So, it's driving the Sundara's with more authority and bringing more out in them. Look what I was missing. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
Jan 24, 2024 at 1:14 PM Post #4,210 of 4,303
I installed the jumpers on my BasX A-100 and there was a noticeable difference. Where I used to get it up to three o'clock now, I get the same volume at eleven or noon. So, it's driving the Sundara's with more authority and bringing more out in them. Look what I was missing. Thanks for the suggestion.
Happy to have contributed to your newfound sonic pleasure. Not all planars scale up in the same way, oddly enough. When I went from my THX789 in balanced mode to my XLS 1502, the HE-6se didn't really transform much at all. It was a significant, but not mind-blowing improvement. And then, my 6se v1 got fried while I tested its subbass output capability. I was so sad...and then I used the same amp to drive my Sundara while a HE-6se v2 was on the way. WOW! Overall, was somewhat disappointed by the HE-6se, but if I hadn't bought the speaker amp to drive the 6se, I wouldn't have discovered the Sundara + XLS magic combo. It was a happy accidental discovery...like how those Chinese monks researching longevity elixirs but accidentally discovered gunpowder. Sure it has the opposite effect of extending human lives—but hey, now we've got something to create pretty lights in the sky!
 
Jan 26, 2024 at 11:15 PM Post #4,211 of 4,303
Happy to have contributed to your newfound sonic pleasure. Not all planars scale up in the same way, oddly enough. When I went from my THX789 in balanced mode to my XLS 1502, the HE-6se didn't really transform much at all. It was a significant, but not mind-blowing improvement. And then, my 6se v1 got fried while I tested its subbass output capability. I was so sad...and then I used the same amp to drive my Sundara while a HE-6se v2 was on the way. WOW! Overall, was somewhat disappointed by the HE-6se, but if I hadn't bought the speaker amp to drive the 6se, I wouldn't have discovered the Sundara + XLS magic combo. It was a happy accidental discovery...like how those Chinese monks researching longevity elixirs but accidentally discovered gunpowder. Sure it has the opposite effect of extending human lives—but hey, now we've got something to create pretty lights in the sky!
Are those the HE-6 SE you blew up with your heavy bass EQ settings and sine generator?
 
Jan 27, 2024 at 2:48 AM Post #4,212 of 4,303
Are those the HE-6 SE you blew up with your heavy bass EQ settings and sine generator?
The left driver died from a subbass test track. The right driver was from the 30hz sine test (to be sure it wasn't just one driver that was faulty). The EQ was only on during the test track, not the sines. Let me tell you, the Sundara's driver assemblies can vibrate like crazy from mega bass signals. The 6se didn't even reach half as much rumble before it died. In the movie How to Train Your Dragon, there are rumbles that extend as low at 16 hz, according to my analyzer. When those rumbles come through on the Sundara, you can feel the visceral texture of the sound waves, and the pressure and suction from the drivers, and the shaking of the driver assemblies. It's very visceral and thrilling. Please don't try to get the same effect from a 6se. $500 value would instantly be lost.

I can actually feel the heat emanating from the diaphragms of the Sundara when I listen to some of the super bassy tracks like Spitfire with the EQ on, where it's pulling 8 watts at each thump. I suspect the 6se's diaphragm is much more taut than the Sundara's diaphragm, which might be a reason for the Sundara's much warmer, fuller tuning, and the 6se's clinicality. The problem with a very taught diaphragm may be that it can't move nearly as much without risking a tear. It must have been the large displacement from vibrating extreme low and powerfully that did those drivers in. I don't think that it is due to the power draw and heat alone, since the Sundara can take so much power, and I can even feel the heat emanating from the diaphragms after a while of playing those big bassy songs at stated output level.

(Fun fact: I made a thing of power resistors that are placed in series between the amp and the headphones to attenuate the annoying noise floor when listening to non-music stuff. It has a switch, so that I can either pull the power through the resistors or bypass them. Each resistor is rated at 10 watts, and there are two. They effectively increase the load from 40 ohms (my Sundara unit, even though Hifiman specs it at 32 ohms) to 150 ohms total. I was curious of how much heat they would absorb if I were to pull roughly the same amount of power through them as I would pull when listening to those bass tracks at the 8 watts max power draws. I could literally feel the resistors getting hot after a 3 min song. That was basically the amount of heat the Sundara's diaphragms were taking, although the Sundara's diaphragms have much greater surface area than these 1 cm x 1 cm x 2 cm resistors, for dissipation.)

I want to clarify one thing: even though I've clocked the Sundara at able to pull 8 watts, I don't think Hifiman's other similarly efficient headphones would need anywhere near 8 watts to rumble as much as the Sundara. This is due to the Sundara's roll off, where at 20 hz it is about 7 db less than flat level, and -3 db at 30 hz. 7db can be roughly equated to a factor of x5. 8 divided by 5 is 1.6. Thus, the OG HE-560 (rated at 93 db), for example, should theoretically need only a little more than 1.6 watts to rumble as hard as the Sundara (94 db) at 20 hz. (Sorry if this is too much math and numbers.) One would be inclined to think the roll off is a significant mark against the Sundara, but with EQ and lots of power headroom, it's a non-issue for me.
 
Jan 27, 2024 at 11:39 AM Post #4,213 of 4,303
The left driver died from a subbass test track. The right driver was from the 30hz sine test (to be sure it wasn't just one driver that was faulty). The EQ was only on during the test track, not the sines. Let me tell you, the Sundara's driver assemblies can vibrate like crazy from mega bass signals. The 6se didn't even reach half as much rumble before it died.
Added: check out posts #3234, 3236, 3240-3246 in the Summit HE-6 SE thread to see reactions to your "tests".

Do you know what a resonance is? Every physical object has a fundamental resonance. The Sundara and other fairly inexpensive HFM planars such as the 400, 4XX, Sundara, 5 SE, 5XX have resonance points at or above 70 Hz. This means the drivers will misbehave under 70 Hz.. As an example let's look at one of the most familiar headphones to anyone reading this - the HD-600. Let's increase the 30 Hz bass by 15 db, at ones normal listening levels, the issues that will result:

1. significant loss in dynamic headroom of almost any amp one is running at that frequency - amp distortion.
2. significant increase in harmonic distortion.
3. significant increase in IM distortion all over the place at higher frequencies.

Then there is driver "Q". The ideal speaker or headphone will provide 20-400 Hz bass and the ideal behavior is described as a Q of .707. FM like radios going back over 90 years and in audio ever since make up for less capable bass via various methods. The ones that matter here are: higher Q (looser less defined bass, slower to stop, more likely to blend into other bass instruments), and elevated mid-bass and upper bass to fool the ear into thinking its real low bass.

In the movie How to Train Your Dragon, there are rumbles that extend as low at 16 hz, according to my analyzer. When those rumbles come through on the Sundara, you can feel the visceral texture of the sound waves, and the pressure and suction from the drivers, and the shaking of the driver assemblies. It's very visceral and thrilling. Please don't try to get the same effect from a 6se. $500 value would instantly be lost.
Thanks for providing a test case that proves what I wrote above.
I can actually feel the heat emanating from the diaphragms of the Sundara when I listen to some of the super bassy tracks like Spitfire with the EQ on, where it's pulling 8 watts at each thump. I suspect the 6se's diaphragm is much more taut than the Sundara's diaphragm, which might be a reason for the Sundara's much warmer, fuller tuning, and the 6se's clinicality. The problem with a very taught diaphragm may be that it can't move nearly as much without risking a tear. It must have been the large displacement from vibrating extreme low and powerfully that did those drivers in. I don't think that it is due to the power draw and heat alone, since the Sundara can take so much power, and I can even feel the heat emanating from the diaphragms after a while of playing those big bassy songs at stated output level.
You have misinterpreted. The HE-6 SE is much closer to an ideal (meaning matching the recording)l bass in terms of timbre, Q, ability to start and stop cleanly. It's fine to like non accurate tunings, but, realize that they are not accurate.
(Fun fact: I made a thing of power resistors that are placed in series between the amp and the headphones to attenuate the annoying noise floor when listening to non-music stuff. It has a switch, so that I can either pull the power through the resistors or bypass them. Each resistor is rated at 10 watts, and there are two. They effectively increase the load from 40 ohms (my Sundara unit, even though Hifiman specs it at 32 ohms) to 150 ohms total. I was curious of how much heat they would absorb if I were to pull roughly the same amount of power through them as I would pull when listening to those bass tracks at the 8 watts max power draws. I could literally feel the resistors getting hot after a 3 min song. That was basically the amount of heat the Sundara's diaphragms were taking, although the Sundara's diaphragms have much greater surface area than these 1 cm x 1 cm x 2 cm resistors, for dissipation.)
What do you assert this proves?
I want to clarify one thing: even though I've clocked the Sundara at able to pull 8 watts, I don't think Hifiman's other similarly efficient headphones would need anywhere near 8 watts to rumble as much as the Sundara. This is due to the Sundara's roll off, where at 20 hz it is about 7 db less than flat level, and -3 db at 30 hz. 7db can be roughly equated to a factor of x5. 8 divided by 5 is 1.6. Thus, the OG HE-560 (rated at 93 db), for example, should theoretically need only a little more than 1.6 watts to rumble as hard as the Sundara (94 db) at 20 hz. (Sorry if this is too much math and numbers.) One would be inclined to think the roll off is a significant mark against the Sundara, but with EQ and lots of power headroom, it's a non-issue for me.
The EQ setting you posted in the HE-6 SE thread indicates that you like lots of bass, and the quality of it isn't as important as the quantity. Closed back bass cannons would seem to be something to investigate.
 
Last edited:
Jan 27, 2024 at 4:01 PM Post #4,214 of 4,303
Do you know what a resonance is? Every physical object has a fundamental resonance. The Sundara and other fairly inexpensive HFM planars such as the 400, 4XX, Sundara, 5 SE, 5XX have resonance points at or above 70 Hz. This means the drivers will misbehave under 70 Hz..
I think you're conflating driver resonant frequency with resonant frequency of the entire headphone assembly, which I'm not sure is even high enough to measure. Simply, my Sundara's whole unit vibrates simply because there's not enough clamp force to dampen the vibration—and I prefer it this way.

You can look a the frequency response of any dynamic headphone to easily ascertain the resonance/center frequency of its bass, but this is not so for planar headphones. They have no such resonance centered in the bass region. It's much more likely that they have their centers much higher. In the case of the 6se, I suspect that it's pretty high. The 6se to me sounds like a large tweeter. It's large enough to produce sufficient subbass frequencies for some neutrality-oriented users. For me, and probably for many, as made obvious by the apparent rate of for-parts-only HE-6se units I've on Ebay with a dead driver, this is not the case.

As an example let's look at one of the most familiar headphones to anyone reading this - the HD-600. Let's increase the 30 Hz bass by 15 db, at ones normal listening levels, the issues that will result:

1. significant loss in dynamic headroom of almost any amp one is running at that frequency - amp distortion.
2. significant increase in harmonic distortion.
3. significant increase in IM distortion all over the place at higher frequencies.
Okay, but why are we using a dynamic driver as an example? Everyone already knows small dynamic drivers struggle to have the excursion needed to produce subbass frequencies. Regarding point #1, yes most headphone amps do not have that kind of voltage swing to accomodate 15db increase at 30hz for many bassy tracks—for most speaker amps driving headphones, however, not an issue. #2 Yes, of course the HD600 would distort like mad with any signifcant amount of power at 30hz. #3 Maybe, but at this point the harmonic distortion alone would be so awful that nothing else matters. Planars don't suffer from this physical limitation, as the measured THD of most planars reveal.

Then there is driver "Q". The ideal speaker or headphone will provide 20-400 Hz bass and the ideal behavior is described as a Q of .707. FM like radios going back over 90 years and in audio ever since make up for less capable bass via various methods. The ones that matter here are: higher Q (looser less defined bass, slower to stop, more likely to blend into other bass instruments), and elevated mid-bass and upper bass to fool the ear into thinking its real low bass.

You have misinterpreted. The HE-6 SE is much closer to an ideal (meaning matching the recording)l bass in terms of timbre, Q, ability to start and stop cleanly. It's fine to like non accurate tunings, but, realize that they are not accurate.
I occasionally sense a bit of what seems to be bass bloom from the Sundara + XLS 1502, but I'm never really sure if it's due to the driver per se, or the recordings. However, the amount of bloom is never feels excessive. As described earlier, the plucking of the strings on a double bass sounds quite warm, large and enveloping. If this is inaccurate, it's still quite tasteful to me. I've listened to quite a few live recordings of marching bands, and drum solos, and I've gotta say the rendering of the drums sounds very, very realistic on the Sundara+XLS. That's why I say the "bloom" I occasionally hear may actually be more due to the recordings. The 6se comparatively sounds distant, much leaner and drier. There are also several others who have given their impressions on the 6se's leanness. If this is "accurate" damping, which I doubt it is, then accuracy is just...lifeless. I think it's probably overdamped, and the Sundara + 1502 sounds much more lifelike to me. I understand Q, and Qe + Qm = Qt, but I'm not sure how you came to such a confident conclusion that the 6se comes closer to the ideal Q = .707. My experience differs bigly.

Regarding how Q affect rise and fall, or "start and stop" in your words, the higher (looser) the Q, the faster the driver is actually able to rise, due to the lack of damping. A very powerful transient signal, therefore, may benefit from a high Q for the desired impact, else a low Q absorbs a lot of that initial energy, resulting in an attack that is less dynamic. This is why I find it odd that many fans of the 6se describe it as "punchy" or "slammy." My experience has been that while it's adequate for snare drums, kick drums lack both the attack energy and body on the 6se.

Honestly, I don't know which is truly more accurate. My opinion leans heavily toward the Sundara+XLS for truly realistic rendering, but you may well be correct, in which case my taste wouldn't lean toward low Q.

What do you assert this proves?
Nothing? Just contextual information I thought might be interesting to support why I think it wasn't heat that killed my 6se v1.

The EQ setting you posted in the HE-6 SE thread indicates that you like lots of bass, and the quality of it isn't as important as the quantity. Closed back bass cannons would seem to be something to investigate.
To be frank, I initially wanted to match the Harman compensation curve (the one with the +8db bass) just for the sake of it. However, your assertions about the Harman curves' purported accuracy made me question it. I much later decided that I only liked the Harman curve for the 6se because I felt the 6se lacked body/presence/impact in the bass. With my Sundara, I've no desire to match the Harman curve, which exacerbates the mic proximity effect on many vocals. The subbass boost I shared in this thread doesn't even come close to matching the Harman curve, especially after you subtract the Sundara bass roll off from it. Closed cans are definitely not to my taste. Bass-boosted headphones definitely not. On my AD1000x, HD650 and HD600, in fact, I actually attenuate their bass humps to be as close to flat as possible. I sometimes even attenuate the bass to slightly neutralize the mic proximity effect for podcasts. I do enjoy a (4-8db) subbass shelf, however, especially for films and shows. So, I do consider myself very neutrality-oriented—with a splash of fun.
 
Jan 27, 2024 at 7:23 PM Post #4,215 of 4,303
I think you're conflating driver resonant frequency with resonant frequency of the entire headphone assembly, which I'm not sure is even high enough to measure. Simply, my Sundara's whole unit vibrates simply because there's not enough clamp force to dampen the vibration—and I prefer it this way.
I am not conflating them. They are separate issues and both have resonances. Dynamat does a nice job muting cup vibrations - use it on all y headphones. Preferring a resonance that extends beyond the signal under 4 ms can be heard as depth and harmonics - beyond that ringing, IM distortion, smearing...
Regarding how Q affect rise and fall, or "start and stop" in your words, the higher (looser) the Q, the faster the driver is actually able to rise, due to the lack of damping.
All things being equal sure - and that's why drivers with Q of say 1.4 take much longer to stop. Low mass drivers (estats, ribbons) have an advatange over dynamics and planars for start/stopping. Planars are also good for starting, but stopping is more of an issue since more mass is moving
Honestly, I don't know which is truly more accurate. My opinion leans heavily toward the Sundara+XLS for truly realistic rendering, but you may well be correct, in which case my taste wouldn't lean toward low Q.
I had a pair of speakers (Cizek 1) with an acoustic suspension driver w/ bass good to 35 Hz. They have a Q switch .6 (actually .57) and 1. Couldn't stand them at 1. Something like Yes "Fragile" had Brufords drums and Squires bass smearing into each other. Had them set up on stands with the proper (1, 1.7, 2.5) ratio of distance to room boundaries for smoothest bass too. Clearly our tastes are quite opposite re: bass.
To be frank, I initially wanted to match the Harman compensation curve (the one with the +8db bass) just for the sake of it. However, your assertions about the Harman curves' purported accuracy made me question it. I much later decided that I only liked the Harman curve for the 6se because I felt the 6se lacked body/presence/impact in the bass. With my Sundara, I've no desire to match the Harman curve, which exacerbates the mic proximity effect on many vocals. The subbass boost I shared in this thread doesn't even come close to matching the Harman curve, especially after you subtract the Sundara bass roll off from it. Closed cans are definitely not to my taste. Bass-boosted headphones definitely not. On my AD1000x, HD650 and HD600, in fact, I actually attenuate their bass humps to be as close to flat as possible. I sometimes even attenuate the bass to slightly neutralize the mic proximity effect for podcasts. I do enjoy a (4-8db) subbass shelf, however, especially for films and shows. So, I do consider myself very neutrality-oriented—with a splash of fun.
As one can see the bass FR measurements done by ASR show the Sundara and HE-6 SE (v1) to be very close to each other, however, the distortion figures of the Sundara are perhaps average among planars, but below the HE-6 SE v1.

image0.png

image1.png
Sundara: ASR (4/14/21) reports that they go bass light at 150 Hz, -5 db @ 50 Hz and -10 db @ 20 Hz (and treble centric)
some THD under 200 Hz and 6k.
"Objectively we miss the bass by a mile but otherwise, compliance to our target is very good. Distortion while not best in class..."
"Alas, I quickly realized there is no sub-bass being produced. And sound signature was a bit bright and over exaggerated at the top."
"bass light and treble centric"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

image2.png

image3.png

HE-6 SE: ASR (5/20/21) reports that they go bass light at 150 Hz -5 db @ 50 Hz and -7 db @ 20 Hz

"I just threw a shelving EQ at it and it made such a positive difference that I did not try to optimize it further. I did that now and boy did it balance the sound nicely and gave me that gorgeous sub-bass with incredible resolution and fidelity."
"Overall I am going to happily recommend the Hifiman HE6Se with equalization. Even without EQ"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ASR isn't good for a lot, but the measurements are good, very similar except at 20 Hz... and the distortion - so unit to unit variability, bad sample? I can't find IM tests and Q in open headphones is usually not measured (it's complex) - so subjective descriptions have to suffice.

By ear my modded and PEQ'd HE-6 SE and my friends HE-6 SE v2 (stock) top all 3 versions of the Sundara I have heard in every single way - except w/o EQ the Sundara's HFM dip at 1.8k isn't as as pronounced. Reckon that will not sway your opinion. Oh well.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top