Hifiman Sundara (HE400i upgraded, around $500)
Jan 12, 2023 at 3:50 PM Post #4,008 of 4,259
I just received my sundara but the cable is a bit strange, what do you think?
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another question, i saw this sundara box on the net, is it the brand new version?
how do i sound how does it change?
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This is the new box yes!
Cable lets say its pretty crap
 
Jan 12, 2023 at 6:31 PM Post #4,011 of 4,259
Why do I smell a bit of hyperbole? Will have to take these claims with a whole dash of salt. I've had $300-ish IEMs, and not one "devastates" even a $200 full-size in any way, let alone "every way." Maybe you didn't get the best matching DAC and amp to go along with your Sundara. I certainly felt mine was lacking until I gave it the right kind and amount of juice. Listening to anything that has big bass transients, every IEM sounds "cute" to my ears. It's not even close in terms of sense of engagement and immersion. With vocals, I sometimes may prefer a good IEM's presentation, but that's an exception, and I'd have to be in the right mood and in the right setting for it. I think I cried once sitting in a bus, because the music and my mood just juxtaposed beautifully somehow.

The old myth that is "IEMs generally have more details than full size" is still well and alive, I see. -smh-
Its no myth, but no fact either.

Sure my Elysian Annihilator blows the Sundara out of the water in every aspect but with such a price gulf it'd better.

Regarding dynamics, I do understand what you're saying which is actually why I got a proper pair of bookshelf studio monitors.

Now THOSE make headphones sound cute.

Imo, iems let you hear details better due to their more focused presentation but at the cost of expansiveness.

Headphones are wider but honestly speaking, they don't rumble like iems do. Its generally a more diffuse feeling to the bass.

Now when you get to speakers, it's a whole different ball game. Yes it's not as micro detailed as iems and headphones can be but it's detailed in a different way. The way the soundstage is expanded gives it far better layering that allows you to pick out each instrument better. On the flip side, the more diffuse presentation doesn't allow texture to come though as readily as in iems and headphones.

But the one thing unique to speakers is the feel of the sound. No iem/headphone I've listened to gives the sense of weight and power to grand orchestral pieces like speakers can.

Pricing of course is another matter. Iems are getting more and more competitive nowadays whereas headphones are a slower market, speakers doubly so. So as of the current state of the market, you can definitely find better bang for buck in iems.

Granted I have had the opportunity to test the best each category has to offer so your opinions may differ depending on which specific setup you're listening to. As you should know in this hobby, just being more expensive does not mean its better.
 
Jan 12, 2023 at 7:29 PM Post #4,012 of 4,259
Its no myth, but no fact either.

Sure my Elysian Annihilator blows the Sundara out of the water in every aspect but with such a price gulf it'd better.

Regarding dynamics, I do understand what you're saying which is actually why I got a proper pair of bookshelf studio monitors.

Now THOSE make headphones sound cute.

Imo, iems let you hear details better due to their more focused presentation but at the cost of expansiveness.

Headphones are wider but honestly speaking, they don't rumble like iems do. Its generally a more diffuse feeling to the bass.

Now when you get to speakers, it's a whole different ball game. Yes it's not as micro detailed as iems and headphones can be but it's detailed in a different way. The way the soundstage is expanded gives it far better layering that allows you to pick out each instrument better. On the flip side, the more diffuse presentation doesn't allow texture to come though as readily as in iems and headphones.

But the one thing unique to speakers is the feel of the sound. No iem/headphone I've listened to gives the sense of weight and power to grand orchestral pieces like speakers can.

Pricing of course is another matter. Iems are getting more and more competitive nowadays whereas headphones are a slower market, speakers doubly so. So as of the current state of the market, you can definitely find better bang for buck in iems.

Granted I have had the opportunity to test the best each category has to offer so your opinions may differ depending on which specific setup you're listening to. As you should know in this hobby, just being more expensive does not mean its better.
Anyone who has been to a concert or live event would agree with you about speakers. The statement I disagree with is with regard to IEMs. I simply hard-disagree with the assertion that they "let you hear details better." Again, I don't know what you guys are using to power your Sundaras, but my experience with IEMs, albeit limited to mid-price ones, has never given me the inkling that they sound more detailed. This is a myth that began, I believe, when in the past there were some very analytical IEMs, and not a very wide or accessible selection of full-size planars and electrostatic headphones systems. E-stats lacked accessibly priced quality amplification options—and still do. After some time with IEMs, I dipped my toes into e-stats and Hifiman planars, and it was clear to me that IEMs did not sound more detailed, unless it had a very analytical, dry presentation, which even full-size can be tuned to sound super analytical/dry/clinical.

The SRS-3100 system I had was an obsessive detail freak of a headphone. Comparing it to any IEM I've heard in regard to detail is futile; they're simply nowhere near as fast as the entry level e-stat. However, my current Sundara + XLS 1502 setup has the same detail resolution, but fleshed out and balanced with every other aspect of sound quality. With less speed, the decay is more realistic, which in my view adds to transparency. Hyper-fast headphones sound artificially detailed imo. Natural detail presentation needs a slightly rich/thick/textured presentation/decay.

Headphones are wider but honestly speaking, they don't rumble like iems do. Its generally a more diffuse feeling to the bass.
This statement is particularly funny to me. Almost every IEM frequency response graph I've seen has a large bass hump, and so there's no doubt the IEMs that have dedicated subwoofer drivers would have that hump extend deep into the subbass region. Planars/e-stats all either have a level bass response, or even a roll-off. The Sundara does have the rolloff, which is compensated for with my EQ and very, very powerful amp. However, you can easily add more bass and subbass to a perfectly level planar with EQ, if a non-neutral subbass is what you require. I've owned IEMs that have flat-neutral frequency responses, and they those don't rumble even with EQ; for one thing, they would distort heavily.
 
Jan 13, 2023 at 4:32 PM Post #4,014 of 4,259
NHPD!!! Just received the Sundaras ordered a couple of days ago. Only did a quick listen because, well, priorities. BUT - I'll get to do an extended listen in the morning while everyone else is still asleep. My setup is a Teac UD-501 into a Woo Audio WA6 (2nd Gen). The 2 I already own are a Beyerdynamic T90 and a Denon AH-D5000. As has been well documented over the years, each has its strengths and weaknesses as, I'm sure, the Sundaras have as well. They are a welcome change though. Not as bright as as the T90s and exhibiting a much wider image than the D5000s. I've been reading the reviews and comments over the past week to get a feel for what to expect and was prepared to hear a headphone similar to the T90s. Not at all. The Sundaras, to me, are a very full sounding headphone with plenty of bass, lots of midrange, and enough highs to offset the lower-mids preventing any type of a muddy, sludgy tone. Don't know that I'd call them warm, don't know that I'd call them analytical. Short term - I'm impressed and looking forward to spending some time with the new acquisition.
 
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Jan 14, 2023 at 5:14 AM Post #4,015 of 4,259
NHPD!!! Just received the Sundaras ordered a couple of days ago. Only did a quick listen because, well, priorities. BUT - I'll get to do an extended listen in the morning while everyone else is still asleep. My setup is a Teac UD-501 into a Woo Audio WA6 (2nd Gen). The 2 I already own are a Beyerdynamic T90 and a Denon AH-D5000. As has been well documented over the years, each has its strengths and weaknesses as, I'm sure, the Sundaras have as well. They are a welcome change though. Not as bright as as the T90s and exhibiting a much wider image than the D5000s. I've been reading the reviews and comments over the past week to get a feel for what to expect and was prepared to hear a headphone similar to the T90s. Not at all. The Sundaras, to me, are a very full sounding headphone with plenty of bass, lots of midrange, and enough highs to offset the lower-mids preventing any type of a muddy, sludgy tone. Don't know that I'd call them warm, don't know that I'd call them analytical. Short term - I'm impressed and looking forward to spending some time with the new acquisition.
Thing that I've enjoyed in the Sundaras it's ability to retrieve great detail! Especial in that high mids.
 
Jan 21, 2023 at 12:18 PM Post #4,017 of 4,259
Spankin' the Sundaras. Good times! Cheers!


Vali 2+ & Tung Sol 6SN7GT & Sundara (3).jpg
 
Jan 23, 2023 at 6:57 AM Post #4,018 of 4,259
The more I change cables for my sundara the more I go back to the original cable, the silver or silver-plated cable cleans the sound but....I hear the sound less full-bodied and less musical, it also lacks impact, do you think?
 

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