[Oof Oink]

That would be a shame, considering such a wide gap in price between the two if only for a marginal improvement.

That's almost always what many/most flagship in-ears entail, when compared to less expensive offerings from either the same manufacturer, or a different one; subtle performance gains and/or an entirely unique presentation. Beyond a set price point (which varies based on personal opinion), you're merely chasing subtleties. Whether or not said subtleties are worth the premium, that's for the individual listener to decide.

I mentioned this earlier, but I'll repeat it here. As well received as the RE-400 has been, I presume it'll be a very tough act to follow. Hence, I'd certainly not approach the RE-600 expecting for it to be many times the performer. That's not how this hobby/market works (though there are always the few, rare exceptions). Inks is absolutely right, in that in most all cases, the flagship status alone denotes an increase in price. Just how much of the RE-600's price is due to its flagship status? Well, we'll know soon enough...

 

[tigon_ridge]

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Sonic memory is a funny thing, unfortunately =/

It's why I make anything but generalizations about the GR07 less and less as time goes by.

It wasn't too long ago, actually. Especially in the case of the GR07, its bass leaves a lasting impression... one simply does not forget the GR07's bass. Ever. The RE-400 matches that, and then some. Also in the case of soundstage, that's something that's quite easy to remember, as overtime you gather an overall impression of the size, depth, height, and 'layeredness' of a headphone. It's like a painting. You look at it long enough, you don't forget it.
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I thought the same thing. I was listening to some Downtempo Electronica, then I switched to some Heavy Chunkin' Metal, and I was fully amused in their transition from subtle and natural to heavy and powerful. 

No kidding! Subtly is something I can appreciating since most of my music is entirely made of non-pop (I dislike pop) love songs. Switching over to a serious bass-boost EQ setting with Heavyweight on (or some bass-heavy dance music) and WAPOW! extreme grey matter rattling ensues. The drivers in these tiny enclosures have enormous power. Speed and tactility are palpable, and dynamic range is so high you risk geting serious hearing loss if you try to get them to clip... having said that, time to get back to the lovey dovey songs...

 

[proedros]

i am glad seeing a hifiman iem thread reaching 75 pages - ever since i got my first audiophile iem (re-zero back in 2010) i believed that hifiman is the best company most people in here didn't have an experience with

seems re-400 is making quite a splash , which is nice seeing people buying nice iems with great bang-for-buck instead of all these overpriced iems from big companies like shure/senheiser etc

keep it going , and let's see what re-600 has for us

 

[AngryGoldfish]

Quote:

True, can't expect it to be 4 times better than the RE-400, but if 2 times better it'd certainly be among the top of universal IEMs 

I haven't tried the RE-400's yet but I have no doubt they will be my next purchase for headphones, whether my old UE 700's stop working entirely in the process or not. But the RE-600 cannot be twice as good. It rarely ever works like that. I'm sure you know this, so I don't mean to patronize, but as a musician I've spent a lot of money of gear and instruments over the years. I've noticed a commonality: Extremely awesome guitars can be found for $2,500 with no wait lists, but you can also find extremely awesome $10,000 guitars with five-year wait lists. Is the more expensive, rarer guitar worth the extra money? For some it is, but for most it's not. It simply uses hard to find and expensive woods, is built by one man with an extremely low production quantity, and uses specialized materials built specifically for his few models. After you pass the $2,000/€2,000/£2,000 mark, you don't really improve in quality, appearance or longevity; you just change.
 
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That would be a shame, considering such a wide gap in price between the two if only for a marginal improvement.
Almost seemed like Dr. Fang Bian has so much confidence in the difference in quality between them to be priced as such. Afterall, he widened the price gap so much more than the RE-262 ($149) and RE-272 ($249)

People will still buy the RE-600's. They've obviously built an excellent IEM with the 400 (based on the endless list of highly conclusive reviews), and that has provided enough hype and anticipation that basically anyone with the money will want to see what their 'sequel' and successor will be. We see this happen all the time, especially with sonic products where digital technology is advancing and allowing for greater processing power in smaller devices, and thus higher replication and versatility of sound. They bring out an excellent but affordable product that covers the basics. Then they release a behemoth that everyone who tried the original will want to buy. That behemoth could be five times the price. It won't actually be five times as good, but people will want it nonetheless. The improvement will be minimal, but because they had grabbed so many customers by the scruff of the neck with their first product, they'll sell really well and probably be favourably reviewed across the board.

 

[Sladeophile]

I'm in the same boat of wonderment that these things are only 1 bill, or $80 bucks in my case .  They are excellent, and one example of why I get really excited about this hobby.  I just picked up the PFE 122 for $80 as well, and I am literally in IEM heaven between the two.  I haven't even touched my UM3X for months.  I finally have what I want with universal IEMs, cheap and excellent and one with a phone mic.  My whole portable setup costs less than $300, yet sounds really good.  When I get the X3 later this summer, I think I will be happy for a long time, at least until I can afford to get the custom IEMs for my next step in portable-in-ear-fi, which won't be for a while.  These truly are gems.

 

[Poetic]

Quote:

What part of the impression exactly? Do we not agree that the GR07 has excellent bass? I think it has large soundstage, but it's rather one dimensional, if my memory serves me right. It isn't layered like the RE400. Also, the RE400 has a little more height to its soundstage. I think to say that it's just really good for its price doesn't do it enough justice. I seriously believe Hifiman made an error in their pricing, unless their goal isn't to maximize profit; in which case, more power to them! All I know is that whenever I play Heavyweight by Infected Mushroom, I feel everything that I remember feeling from the GR07, minus the teenie tiny bit of bloat. Each bass slam hits hard; attack speed is all there and you can literally feel the visceral vibrations in your head. The point is that the quality and dynamic range of the GR07's bass are all there in the RE-400. By "bloat" I mean that the GR07 has a bit more extended bass decay; and imo, the RE-400's bass decay is just "perfect." It doesn't interfere with vocal clarity, which I cannot say for the GR07 at all. I think for $140 the GR07 is really good for its price... for the current price of the 400s, IMO, they might as well defy the very laws of physics.

I don't feel the Bass of the GR07 slightly bloated,  the GR07's bass feels perfect to me IMO. The GR07 also sounds more 3D to me compared to the RE-400. Especially the instrument seperation. We all hear things differently though, I still feel the GR07 is more versatile and the overall better performer than the RE-400 in many music genres.

 

[Origin89]

Quote:

I'm in the same boat of wonderment that these things are only 1 bill, or $80 bucks in my case .  They are excellent, and one example of why I get really excited about this hobby.  I just picked up the PFE 122 for $80 as well, and I am literally in IEM heaven between the two.  I haven't even touched my UM3X for months.  I finally have what I want with universal IEMs, cheap and excellent and one with a phone mic.  My whole portable setup costs less than $300, yet sounds really good.  When I get the X3 later this summer, I think I will be happy for a long time, at least until I can afford to get the custom IEMs for my next step in portable-in-ear-fi, which won't be for a while.  These truly are gems.

 
Yea, that's really a nice feeling to sift through the fray and find something that seems just too reasonable. I've spent the same amount of money on headphones that can't even touch the 400. That saying - "If it's too good to be true, it probably is" - doesn't apply here. 

 

[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

I don't feel the Bass of the GR07 slightly bloated,  the GR07's bass feels perfect to me IMO. The GR07 also sounds more 3D to me compared to the RE-400. Especially the instrument seperation. We all hear things differently though, I still feel the GR07 is more versatile and the overall better performer than the RE-400 in many music genres.

Some do prefer a slightly U-shape signature as their ideal all-rounder. I actually also liked the GR07 a lot, and prefer it to the RE0, which I felt has some of the best tonality for the midrange. I think the GR07 is the first headphone I've heard that sounds both warm and have piercing highs at the same time. Very unlike the more linear RE-400. Unfortunately I don't still have the GR07 to A/B its soundstage with the RE-400. So maybe I'll just take your words for it, and assume they might be very close in that regard; even though many in the GR07 thread have attested to their GR07 sounding wide but one-dimensional and without much height... I don't recall publicizing my own opinion in that regard, but I definitely do recall hearing the GR07 as such. You're right about everyone hearing things differently, though.
 
Regarding their decay, I don't think it's so much the issue for my personal taste that the GR07 has lengthier decay than the RE-400 (and in same ways, for some passages, it may be even preferable) in the lower-and-mid bass department; but the extension carries over excessively into the lower mids... creating a weird distortion effect on vocals, where lower notes seem to have disproportionately more body than higher notes, and male vocals similarly have significantly more body than female vocals even more so than what is natural in reality.

 

[Nulliverse]

Quote:

I don't feel the Bass of the GR07 slightly bloated,  the GR07's bass feels perfect to me IMO. The GR07 also sounds more 3D to me compared to the RE-400. Especially the instrument separation. We all hear things differently though, I still feel the GR07 is more versatile and the overall better performer than the RE-400 in many music genres.

 
I owned and dearly loved the GR07. It's reproduction of the lower registers still haven't been topped in a universal at that price point. That said, I didn't hear it as particularly 3D, something which is echoed widely by user reports, who describe it as slightly wanting in terms of sound stage depth. Indeed, the 2dimensional nature of the GR07 is generally regarded as one of it's few weaknesses.
 
Although I've not yet heard the RE-400, one of the bigger factors influencing my purchase were reports of decent depth of sound stage, even if width is comparatively narrower when measured against wider sets, such as the GR07.   

 

[HiFlight]

i am glad seeing a hifiman iem thread reaching 75 pages - ever since i got my first audiophile iem (re-zero back in 2010) i believed that hifiman is the best company most people in here didn't have an experience with


seems re-400 is making quite a splash , which is nice seeing people buying nice iems with great bang-for-buck instead of all these overpriced iems from big companies like shure/senheiser etc


keep it going , and let's see what re-600 has for us

I first owned the RE-400, then later had the opportunity to receive an RE-600 for evaluation. If you like the qualities of the RE-400, the 600 simply adds more of the same. Is it worth 4x the price of the RE-400? That is something that will have to be determined by the ears of the beholder, as everyone has different expectations and preferences, however the RE-600 does add some addition features to the comparisons. The cable is of a different composition adding some silver to the RE-400's all copper cable and is also reinforced with kevlar to add additional strength. The fabric-covered wire does not seem to kink as readily as the 400 cable. The 600 cable is terminated with a TRRS balanced connector which, if one owns a balanced amp, is a welcome addition, although if one does not own a HiFiMan balanced DAP, it will be necessary to acquire a suitable adapter.

The RE-600 scales very well with upgraded sources, so if you own, or plan to acquire, a high-end DAP or amp, the extra cost of the RE-600 will be likely be money well-spent. The RE-600 does seem to be more difficult to drive than does the RE-400, so if your source is a phone or iPod, perhaps the RE-400 will remain a good match.

I did sell my RE-400 and now consider the RE-600 to be my reference standard to which I compare other headphones. The RE-600 is scheduled for release near the end of this month.

 

[Poetic]

Quote:

Some do prefer a slightly U-shape signature as their ideal all-rounder. I actually also liked the GR07 a lot, and prefer it to the RE0, which I felt has some of the best tonality for the midrange. I think the GR07 is the first headphone I've heard that sounds both warm and have piercing highs at the same time. Very unlike the more linear RE-400. Unfortunately I don't still have the GR07 to A/B its soundstage with the RE-400. So maybe I'll just take your words for it, and assume they might be very close in that regard; even though many in the GR07 thread have attested to their GR07 sounding wide but one-dimensional and without much height... I don't recall publicizing my own opinion in that regard, but I definitely do recall hearing the GR07 as such. You're right about everyone hearing things differently, though.
 
Regarding their decay, I don't think it's so much the issue for my personal taste that the GR07 has lengthier decay than the RE-400 (and in same ways, for some passages, it may be even preferable) in the lower-and-mid bass department; but the extension carries over excessively into the lower mids... creating a weird distortion effect on vocals, where lower notes seem to have disproportionately more body than higher notes, and male vocals similarly have significantly more body than female vocals even more so than what is natural in reality.

O_O you felt the GRO7 had piercing highs ?? i thought the highs were similar to the Brainwavz B2 except abit smoother out

 

[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

I first owned the RE-400, then later had the opportunity to receive an RE-600 for evaluation. If you like the qualities of the RE-400, the 600 simply adds more of the same. Is it worth 4x the price of the RE-400? That is something that will have to be determined by the ears of the beholder, as everyone has different expectations and preferences, however the RE-600 does add some addition features to the comparisons. The cable is of a different composition adding some silver to the RE-400's all copper cable and is also reinforced with kevlar to add additional strength. The fabric-covered wire does not seem to kink as readily as the 400 cable. The 600 cable is terminated with a TRRS balanced connector which, if one owns a balanced amp, is a welcome addition, although if one does not own a HiFiMan balanced DAP, it will be necessary to acquire a suitable adapter.

The RE-600 scales very well with upgraded sources, so if you own, or plan to acquire, a high-end DAP or amp, the extra cost of the RE-600 will be likely be money well-spent. The RE-600 does seem to be more difficult to drive than does the RE-400, so if your source is a phone or iPod, perhaps the RE-400 will remain a good match.

I did sell my RE-400 and now consider the RE-600 to be my reference standard to which I compare other headphones. The RE-600 is scheduled for release near the end of this month.

Do you have a specific recommendation for balanced amps to pair with the RE-600? Sounds very interesting. How soon can we expect to read a full review?
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O_O you felt the GRO7 had piercing highs ??

Yes, but I'm not the only one who reported that. The worst part of it is in the 6kHz region, as I recall. I tend to listen at high volume, which is when bright treble can be most offending, btw. At "normal" volume, it's not a big deal, although that 6kHz still rears its head from time to time. Plus, the overall treble quality of the GR07 is just average imo, nothing to compare to IEMs like RE-400 or ER4S.

 

[Theta Alpha 1]

Quote:

I first owned the RE-400, then later had the opportunity to receive an RE-600 for evaluation. If you like the qualities of the RE-400, the 600 simply adds more of the same. Is it worth 4x the price of the RE-400? That is something that will have to be determined by the ears of the beholder, as everyone has different expectations and preferences, however the RE-600 does add some addition features to the comparisons. The cable is of a different composition adding some silver to the RE-400's all copper cable and is also reinforced with kevlar to add additional strength. The fabric-covered wire does not seem to kink as readily as the 400 cable. The 600 cable is terminated with a TRRS balanced connector which, if one owns a balanced amp, is a welcome addition, although if one does not own a HiFiMan balanced DAP, it will be necessary to acquire a suitable adapter.

The RE-600 scales very well with upgraded sources, so if you own, or plan to acquire, a high-end DAP or amp, the extra cost of the RE-600 will be likely be money well-spent. The RE-600 does seem to be more difficult to drive than does the RE-400, so if your source is a phone or iPod, perhaps the RE-400 will remain a good match.

I did sell my RE-400 and now consider the RE-600 to be my reference standard to which I compare other headphones. The RE-600 is scheduled for release near the end of this month.

 
Thanks for the impressions.  So, you like it more than your ER-4PT, EX800ST, PFE232... really?  Which amp, Warbler?

 

[dleblanc343]

Make sure to see HiFlight's review of the RE600's for those interested here

 

[hifiman-us]

Yes HiFiMAN will have RE-600, RE-400 and HM-901 at CE Week next week in NYC. Dr. Fang will be there in person. Please stop by and visit.
 
Peter